Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Mon May 04, 2020 7:12 am

Against aliens I would use NN.
No matter how strong Stockfish is - it is open-source. Aliens can hire Houdart and make some minor improvements.
You need some obfuscation
Raphexon wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:44 am
NPS sort of does because LazySMP can keep widening the search. But as the search widens it also becomes less efficient
On 4C/8T CPU I checked 4 vs 8 threads. It takes exactly the same number of seconds to reach given depth, though 8 threads are faster and calculate more nodes

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Laskos
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Laskos » Mon May 04, 2020 7:57 am

yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:12 am
Against aliens I would use NN.
No matter how strong Stockfish is - it is open-source. Aliens can hire Houdart and make some minor improvements.
You need some obfuscation
Raphexon wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:44 am
NPS sort of does because LazySMP can keep widening the search. But as the search widens it also becomes less efficient
On 4C/8T CPU I checked 4 vs 8 threads. It takes exactly the same number of seconds to reach given depth, though 8 threads are faster and calculate more nodes
With Lazy SMP fixed depth is not a correct measure of strength. Probably the 8 threaded search is wider to the same depth compared to 4 threaded search, and probably stronger to the same depth.

Werewolf
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Werewolf » Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 am

CMCanavessi wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Leela is stronger than both.
Do you know how many graphics cards Lc0 can support? Is it 4?

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Mon May 04, 2020 8:25 am

Laskos wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:57 am
With Lazy SMP fixed depth is not a correct measure of strength. Probably the 8 threaded search is wider to the same depth compared to 4 threaded search, and probably stronger to the same depth.
how to run test tournament? I use Arena 3.5, cannot find how to assign different Threads count for participants.
Any other GUI or CLI-Cutechess?

Raphexon
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Raphexon » Mon May 04, 2020 8:28 am

Werewolf wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 am
CMCanavessi wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Leela is stronger than both.
Do you know how many graphics cards Lc0 can support? Is it 4?
I think 4 but I don't think it scales much (if at all) beyond 3.

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Laskos
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Laskos » Mon May 04, 2020 8:33 am

yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:25 am
Laskos wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:57 am
With Lazy SMP fixed depth is not a correct measure of strength. Probably the 8 threaded search is wider to the same depth compared to 4 threaded search, and probably stronger to the same depth.
how to run test tournament? I use Arena 3.5, cannot find how to assign different Threads count for participants.
Any other GUI or CLI-Cutechess?
I don't understand. Just set the UCI option in Arena or whatever to Threads=4 and 8. Play say 400 fast games at fixed time. It's also educative to do the match at fixed depth, with Lazy SMP more threads to fixed depth is usually stronger.

Raphexon
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Raphexon » Mon May 04, 2020 8:57 am

yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:25 am
Laskos wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:57 am
With Lazy SMP fixed depth is not a correct measure of strength. Probably the 8 threaded search is wider to the same depth compared to 4 threaded search, and probably stronger to the same depth.
how to run test tournament? I use Arena 3.5, cannot find how to assign different Threads count for participants.
Any other GUI or CLI-Cutechess?
If you can't find the threads setting in the engine config, you probably have universal thread count enabled in Arena. (or whatever its called)
If you disable that setting you can set the thread count on individual engines.

Werewolf
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Werewolf » Mon May 04, 2020 11:07 am

Raphexon wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:28 am
Werewolf wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 am
CMCanavessi wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Leela is stronger than both.
Do you know how many graphics cards Lc0 can support? Is it 4?
I think 4 but I don't think it scales much (if at all) beyond 3.
Does it scale well to 3?

I'm using two x 2080 Ti and getting around 30 kn/s

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Mon May 04, 2020 11:47 am

Laskos wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:33 am
I don't understand. Just set the UCI option in Arena or whatever to Threads=4 and 8. Play say 400 fast games at fixed time. It's also educative to do the match at fixed depth, with Lazy SMP more threads to fixed depth is usually stronger.
Thread option in Arena is not per-engine, it is per-GUI.
Same is deep-fritz GUI (as far as I remember)
you probably have universal thread count enabled in Arena. (or whatever its called)
Arena definitely have this option universal to GUI, and it is not "disableable"

Please advise which GUI (or CLI-Cutechess options) use under Windows to run tournament with different Threads option for different engines.

MonteCarlo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by MonteCarlo » Mon May 04, 2020 12:33 pm

yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 11:47 am
Thread option in Arena is not per-engine, it is per-GUI.
This is not true. I configure different thread settings per engine in Arena all the time.

Just right-click the engine name in the engine output pane, click on "Configure <your engine name>", and set the threads setting to an appropriate value.

Arena does have the ability to set things like common hash table sizes and common books for UCI engines ("Engines"->"Manage..."->"UCI" tab), but at least in the version I have (3.0 build 2542), threads is not one of the common settings.

Cheers!

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