Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

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Milos
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Milos » Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm

MonteCarlo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 12:33 pm
yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 11:47 am
Thread option in Arena is not per-engine, it is per-GUI.
This is not true. I configure different thread settings per engine in Arena all the time.

Just right-click the engine name in the engine output pane, click on "Configure <your engine name>", and set the threads setting to an appropriate value.

Arena does have the ability to set things like common hash table sizes and common books for UCI engines ("Engines"->"Manage..."->"UCI" tab), but at least in the version I have (3.0 build 2542), threads is not one of the common settings.

Cheers!
There is "Common max CPU cores" setting in 3.5.
Last edited by Milos on Mon May 04, 2020 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Mon May 04, 2020 12:46 pm

...........

MonteCarlo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by MonteCarlo » Mon May 04, 2020 12:59 pm

Milos wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm
There is "Common max CPU cores" setting in 3.5.

Ah, thanks for that :)

If it works like the common UCI settings that exist in 3.0, it should be possible to uncheck that setting and use per-engine settings.

Of course, I guess I should just acquire 3.5 instead of speculating :)

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Mon May 04, 2020 1:03 pm

MonteCarlo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 12:59 pm
Of course, I guess I should just acquire 3.5 instead of speculating :)
3.5 also works fine, I didn't notice I could un-check "Common max CPU cores" under UCI tab.
When unchecked - Threads option arrives in per-engine settings

MonteCarlo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by MonteCarlo » Mon May 04, 2020 1:43 pm

yurikvelo wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 1:03 pm
3.5 also works fine, I didn't notice I could un-check "Common max CPU cores" under UCI tab.
When unchecked - Threads option arrives in per-engine settings
That's excellent to hear. I'm glad I could help a little bit :)

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MikeB
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by MikeB » Tue May 05, 2020 2:54 am

mehmet123 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Stockfish Cluster support at least 4096 cores. At this hardware the speed of Stockfish is ~4.800.000.00 kn/s.
Noobpwnftw (main contributor of Fishtest ) has a resource with ~30.000 cpu.
At 5000 TPU AlphaZero has played 44 millions self play games at 9 hours. And the speed of AlphaZero was 80 kn/s at 4 TPU GPU. At 2017 match AlphaZero (4 TPU) has beaten Stockfish 8 (64 core).

Which engine should we choose to represent the world in the event of a chess match with an alien race? AlphaZero at 5000 TPU or Stockfish 11 (Dev.) at 30.000 cores.

http://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd---in ... -bench.php
Good question. I have to believe there is a more upside with Alpha Zero than with an AB engine.
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by noobpwnftw » Tue May 05, 2020 4:02 am

If your alien race is far more advanced then I see no reason to send our poor imitations of human intelligence than our top human chess player.
Their computers will probably run our crappy programs much faster but our biological evolution and individual personalities are something they will never have.

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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue May 05, 2020 5:00 am

I guess they will use a quantum computer and solve chess in a single machine cycle.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
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Milos
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by Milos » Tue May 05, 2020 5:55 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 5:00 am
I guess they will use a quantum computer and solve chess in a single machine cycle.
Quantum computer won't be able to solve chess no matter how many cubits you pack because there is no algorithm that solves chess that can provide any speedup on a quantum computer. You can't evaluate position using a quantum computer. You can't represent a position on a quantum computer. You need a constant translation between classical and quantum computer. That kills all the advantage of quantum computing.

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yurikvelo
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Re: Which is stronger AlphaZero( 5000 TPU) or Stockfish(30.000 Cores)

Post by yurikvelo » Tue May 05, 2020 7:22 am

Milos wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 5:55 am
no matter how many cubits you pack
you cannot increase number of qubits, since on large (macro-world) scale, wave function collapses (decoherence happens).
only a few (in order of 1...100) qubits can work in a quantum state. systems with more than few (currently 8...10, possibly dozens) qubits work as a cluster of independent nodes, connected with extremely slow external networks.

in traditional computing there is big (theoretically unlimited) amount of slow external memory and small number of executive blocks which manipulate step-by-step those unlimited data stored in external memory. Transacting data force and back between memory blocks and executive blocks make things very slow, but very easy (in terms of processor complexity).

In quantum computing executive blocks and memory is the same. Just to be able to solve simple algo (e.g. prime decomposition) you need million of qubits.

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