Is EMAN the future number one?

[zullil]

Could you explain your last position ?
I let analyzed Stockfish, Eman, Honey and Corchess, all think that white is winning at the end of the mainline after 71.Kg4...

As soon as I have more time again, I will analyze the continuation or the final evaluation even more closely. It is possible that the game was not played optimally at an earlier point.
But at the moment I still assume that 65... Nf1 is the best move in the position.

The best move appears to be resignation. 65...Nf1 loses, like everything else.

[Ovyron]

I am afraid specialized engines are slower and because of this weaker than Stockfish, the real Number One.

This is very easy to check, just download the "clone" and compare.

CFish was getting solid +200 kn/s around here, and they were noticeable, and it performed better than Stockfish dev for several months after its release.

But I was basically the only CFish user around, so it was just me, and different clones worked for different people (depending on their hardware and book), but the minority actually goes with Stockfish Dev, because improvements from the "cloners" seem useful to most users.

[zullil]

Could you explain your last position ?
I let analyzed Stockfish, Eman, Honey and Corchess, all think that white is winning at the end of the mainline after 71.Kg4...

As soon as I have more time again, I will analyze the continuation or the final evaluation even more closely. It is possible that the game was not played optimally at an earlier point.
But at the moment I still assume that 65... Nf1 is the best move in the position.

The best move appears to be resignation. 65...Nf1 loses, like everything else.

[d]8/3R4/p4rk1/2R5/3p4/1P4K1/8/5n2 w - - 1 66
Stockfish-dev:

+153.65 66. Kh3 Nd2 67. Kg4 Re6 68. Rg5+ Kf6 69. Rf5+ Kg6 70. b4 Ne4 71. Kf4 Nd6 72. Rf8 Re4+ 73. Kg3 Re6 74. Kg2 d3 75. Rfd8 Re2+ 76. Kf3 Nc4 77. Rg8+ Kf5 78. Rxd3 Rb2 79. Rf8+ Ke6 80. Kg3 Nd6 81. Rb8 Ke5 82. Ra3 Ne4+ 83. Kf3 Nd2+ 84. Kg4 Nf1 85. Rxa6 Ne3+ 86. Kg3 Nf5+ 87. Kf3 Nd4+ 88. Kg4 Rg2+ 89. Kh3 Rb2 90. Ra5+ Kf4 91. Rc5 Rb3+ 92. Kh4 Rb2 93. Kh5 Ne6 94. Rc6 Nd4 95. Rc4 Ke5 96. Rc5+ Ke6 97. Kg4 Kd7 98. Rb7+ Kd6 99. Rb6+ Kd7 100. Rc4 Nc2 101. Kf4 Ne1 102. b5 Rf2+ 103. Ke3 Rh2 104. Ra6 Nc2+ 105. Kf3 Ne1+ 106. Kg4 Rg2+ 107. Kh3 Re2 108. Rcc6 Re3+ 109. Kg4 Re4+ 110. Kf5 Re2 111. Ra7+ Kd8 112. Rh6 Rf2+ 113. Kg4 Rg2+ 114. Kh3 Re2 115. Rh8+ Re8 116. Rxe8+ Kxe8 (depth 87, 2:05:29)

[Ovyron]

So a losing move was sent as an example of Eman being stellar? Well then...

[swissman]

From one of my current engine tournaments a clear and deserved winner emerged: EMAN.

Have fun: Walter

Hi Walter
I do not own Eman 5.50 and don't trust myself to make a forecast. Still: 60 games without a loss is very impressive.
Regards
Kurt

[Glarean]

The best move appears to be resignation. 65...Nf1 loses, like everything else.

[d]8/3R4/p4rk1/2R5/3p4/1P4K1/8/5n2 w - - 1 66
Stockfish-dev:
+153.65 66. Kh3 Nd2 67. Kg4 Re6 68. Rg5+ Kf6 69. Rf5+ Kg6 70. b4 Ne4 71. Kf4 Nd6 72. Rf8 Re4+ 73. Kg3 Re6 74. Kg2 d3 75. Rfd8 Re2+ 76. Kf3 Nc4 77. Rg8+ Kf5 78. Rxd3 Rb2 79. Rf8+ Ke6 80. Kg3 Nd6 81. Rb8 Ke5 82. Ra3 Ne4+ 83. Kf3 Nd2+ 84. Kg4 Nf1 85. Rxa6 Ne3+ 86. Kg3 Nf5+ 87. Kf3 Nd4+ 88. Kg4 Rg2+ 89. Kh3 Rb2 90. Ra5+ Kf4 91. Rc5 Rb3+ 92. Kh4 Rb2 93. Kh5 Ne6 94. Rc6 Nd4 95. Rc4 Ke5 96. Rc5+ Ke6 97. Kg4 Kd7 98. Rb7+ Kd6 99. Rb6+ Kd7 100. Rc4 Nc2 101. Kf4 Ne1 102. b5 Rf2+ 103. Ke3 Rh2 104. Ra6 Nc2+ 105. Kf3 Ne1+ 106. Kg4 Rg2+ 107. Kh3 Re2 108. Rcc6 Re3+ 109. Kg4 Re4+ 110. Kf5 Re2 111. Ra7+ Kd8 112. Rh6 Rf2+ 113. Kg4 Rg2+ 114. Kh3 Re2 115. Rh8+ Re8 116. Rxe8+ Kxe8 (depth 87, 2:05:29)

Maybe you're right, it's possible that 65... Nf1 is not as sexy as I first thought.

I was counting on that 3MV analysis:

EMAN-TopShots - Schramm vs Zhak (Corr-Game, Line)
8/3R4/p4rk1/2R5/3p4/1P2n1K1/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Eman 5.60 - Deep 40/79

1. +/- (0.94): 65...Sf1+ 66.Kh3 Sd2 67.Kg4 Se4 68.Te5 Sf2+ 69.Kg3 Sd3 70.Ta5 Tb6 71.Kg4 Kf6 72.Txd4 Txb3 73.Td6+ Ke7 [...]
2. +- (2.33): 65...Kh6 66.Tc8 Tf1 67.Tdd8 Sf5+ 68.Kg2 Se3+ 69.Kh2 Tf4 70.Kg3 Tf1 71.Tc6+ Kg5 72.Tc5+ Sf5+ 73.Kg2 Tf4 [...]
3. +- (6.24): 65...Te6 66.Kf3 Sf5 67.Tcd5 d3 68.Kf4 Tb6 69.Te5 Tb4+ 70.Te4 Tb6 71.Txd3 Kf6 72.Tf3 Tb8 73.Ta4 a5 [...]

[Glarean]

Hi Walter
I do not own Eman 5.50 and don't trust myself to make a forecast. Still: 60 games without a loss is very impressive.
Regards
Kurt

Eman lost 1 game (against Corchess), Kurt.
Stockfish was the only program that never lost a game.
Stockfish plays extremely solid - but wins less often than Eman...

[corres]

I am afraid specialized engines are slower and because of this weaker than Stockfish, the real Number One.

This is very easy to check, just download the "clone" and compare.
CFish was getting solid +200 kn/s around here, and they were noticeable, and it performed better than Stockfish dev for several months after its release.

If I know well CFish had some advantage only if you used hardware with more than one processor because it had a good NUMA implementation and being in C language it was a few % faster than c++ Stockfish.

[corres]

I am afraid specialized engines are slower and because of this weaker than Stockfish, the real Number One.

This is very easy to check, just download the "clone" and compare.
CFish was getting solid +200 kn/s around here, and they were noticeable, and it performed better than Stockfish dev for several months after its release.

If I know well CFish had some advantage only if you used hardware with more than one processor because it had a good NUMA implementation and being in C language it was a few % faster than c++ Stockfish.
Sorry, but I have no Eman so the test wait for you.

[MikeB]

The best move appears to be resignation. 65...Nf1 loses, like everything else.

[d]8/3R4/p4rk1/2R5/3p4/1P4K1/8/5n2 w - - 1 66
Stockfish-dev:
+153.65 66. Kh3 Nd2 67. Kg4 Re6 68. Rg5+ Kf6 69. Rf5+ Kg6 70. b4 Ne4 71. Kf4 Nd6 72. Rf8 Re4+ 73. Kg3 Re6 74. Kg2 d3 75. Rfd8 Re2+ 76. Kf3 Nc4 77. Rg8+ Kf5 78. Rxd3 Rb2 79. Rf8+ Ke6 80. Kg3 Nd6 81. Rb8 Ke5 82. Ra3 Ne4+ 83. Kf3 Nd2+ 84. Kg4 Nf1 85. Rxa6 Ne3+ 86. Kg3 Nf5+ 87. Kf3 Nd4+ 88. Kg4 Rg2+ 89. Kh3 Rb2 90. Ra5+ Kf4 91. Rc5 Rb3+ 92. Kh4 Rb2 93. Kh5 Ne6 94. Rc6 Nd4 95. Rc4 Ke5 96. Rc5+ Ke6 97. Kg4 Kd7 98. Rb7+ Kd6 99. Rb6+ Kd7 100. Rc4 Nc2 101. Kf4 Ne1 102. b5 Rf2+ 103. Ke3 Rh2 104. Ra6 Nc2+ 105. Kf3 Ne1+ 106. Kg4 Rg2+ 107. Kh3 Re2 108. Rcc6 Re3+ 109. Kg4 Re4+ 110. Kf5 Re2 111. Ra7+ Kd8 112. Rh6 Rf2+ 113. Kg4 Rg2+ 114. Kh3 Re2 115. Rh8+ Re8 116. Rxe8+ Kxe8 (depth 87, 2:05:29)

Maybe you're right, it's possible that 65... Nf1 is not as sexy as I first thought.

I was counting on that 3MV analysis:

EMAN-TopShots - Schramm vs Zhak (Corr-Game, Line)
8/3R4/p4rk1/2R5/3p4/1P2n1K1/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Eman 5.60 - Deep 40/79

1. +/- (0.94): 65...Sf1+ 66.Kh3 Sd2 67.Kg4 Se4 68.Te5 Sf2+ 69.Kg3 Sd3 70.Ta5 Tb6 71.Kg4 Kf6 72.Txd4 Txb3 73.Td6+ Ke7 [...]
2. +- (2.33): 65...Kh6 66.Tc8 Tf1 67.Tdd8 Sf5+ 68.Kg2 Se3+ 69.Kh2 Tf4 70.Kg3 Tf1 71.Tc6+ Kg5 72.Tc5+ Sf5+ 73.Kg2 Tf4 [...]
3. +- (6.24): 65...Te6 66.Kf3 Sf5 67.Tcd5 d3 68.Kf4 Tb6 69.Te5 Tb4+ 70.Te4 Tb6 71.Txd3 Kf6 72.Tf3 Tb8 73.Ta4 a5 [...]

Yes indeed

info depth 46 seldepth 87 multipv 1 score cp 470 nodes 19884360324 nps 110468054 hashfull 731 tbhits 307695112 time 180001 pv g3h3 f1d2 h3g4 d2e4 c5e5 e4f2 g4g3 f2d3 e5a5 f6b6 g3g4 g6f6 d7d4 d3e5 g4f4 e5g6 f4e4 g6e7 d4d3 b6e6 e4f4 e6b6 a5c5 b6e6 d3d4 e6b6 b3b4 b6e6 d4e4 e6d6 e4c4 d6e6 f4f3 e6d6 f3e4 f6e6 c5h5 e7g8 h5e5 e6f7 e5c5 g8e7 e4e5 d6h6 e5d4 f7f8 d4c3 h6h3 c3c2 h3f3 c4d4 f3f6 c2d3 e7c6 d4e4 c6a7 d3c4 a7c6 c5d5
bestmove g3h3 ponder f1d2