Stockfish Handicap Matches

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lkaufman
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:38 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:28 am
lkaufman wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:40 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:06 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:06 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
Ben is an excellent candidate for this, great idea! Any idea how many viewers he typically had for these handicap match shows? Is there an email address for him available or another good way to contact?
You can either tweet him or get in touch with him on facebook, he has over 4800 almost 5,000 followers
https://twitter.com/ben_finegold?lang=en
I was wrong, I just watched GM Ben is entire video and he mentioned that he has over 46,000 subscribers WOW
I have never used twitter, and I think you have to be "friends" first on facebook to send messages. Is there another way to contact him?
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALe ... CAk&uact=5

You can reach GM Ben Finegold by emailing his Wife Karen finegold
Phone: 678-628-5615. Email: Karen@atlchessclub.com.Sep 5, 2018

https://www.facebook.com/ChessClubandSc ... ofAtlanta/

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALe ... CAk&uact=5
OK, thanks, I emailed her.
Komodo rules!

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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by Rebel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.

lkaufman
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm

Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
Well, we know that knight odds is too much, because David Smerdon won by 5-1 vs. Komodo just a month ago at 15' +10", and he is only about 30 elo above Finegold. But two pawns is another story entirely. Although Van Foreest (2682) beat Stockfish 2 to 1 at 30" + 10" with two White pawns, Komodo has a very good record against grandmasters when giving two White pawns in Rapid.
Komodo rules!

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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by Rebel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:00 pm

okay.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.

Chessqueen
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by Chessqueen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:29 pm

Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:00 pm
okay.
I was wondering how would the version of Rebel that played versus GM Vishy Anand back in 2002 with the same Hardwared would score against Komodo using 32 scores at (c2/f2) odds or other two pawns odds configuration at TC 15 + 10 increments?

Chessqueen
Posts: 978
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Full name: Nancy M Pichardo

Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by Chessqueen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:35 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
Well, we know that knight odds is too much, because David Smerdon won by 5-1 vs. Komodo just a month ago at 15' +10", and he is only about 30 elo above Finegold. But two pawns is another story entirely. Although Van Foreest (2682) beat Stockfish 2 to 1 at 30" + 10" with two White pawns, Komodo has a very good record against grandmasters when giving two White pawns in Rapid.
I truly believe that GM Ben Finegold would have a fair and very even match against Komnodo with two pawns odds (c2/f2) or other similar two pawns odds configuration at Time control of 15 + 10 sec increment. GM Ben is very popular with his Youtube followers here he made $2,385 in donations which is more than GM Smerdon ever made playing any engine, but GM Ben would benefit tremendously by playing versus Komodo since he has such a great amount of fans that follow him on Youtube ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9eXfqsufhw

PS: Now two pawns Odds at Time control of 45 Minutes or greater would be hard even for Komodo latest version, the more time you give the human players rated higher than 2400 like Danny Rensch that better they come out with a plan and avoid blunders :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdcqRBgxFs

Did you can reach GM Ben Finegold
Phone: 678-628-5615.
Last edited by Chessqueen on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

lkaufman
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:53 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:29 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:00 pm
okay.
I was wondering how would the version of Rebel that played versus GM Vishy Anand back in 2002 with the same Hardwared would score against Komodo using 32 scores at (c2/f2) odds or other two pawns odds configuration at TC 15 + 10 increments?
Since Benjamin, which is a new Rebel version, running on one core of my laptop beat Komodo on 7 threads by just 11 to 9 at knight odds, it's safe to say that Komodo on 32 cores would crush a 2002 Rebel on 2002 hardware at knight odds. c2/f2 is only about half of knight odds, so that would not be any contest at all. This also implies that Benjamin on even one core of my laptop would be favored against any human now in normal rapid chess, but the top humans will crush Komodo at knight odds in rapid since Smerdon won 5 to 1. It's not easy to find an engine that is as good at playing with an extra knight as it is in standard chess, compared to human GMs.
Komodo rules!

lkaufman
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:02 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:35 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
Well, we know that knight odds is too much, because David Smerdon won by 5-1 vs. Komodo just a month ago at 15' +10", and he is only about 30 elo above Finegold. But two pawns is another story entirely. Although Van Foreest (2682) beat Stockfish 2 to 1 at 30" + 10" with two White pawns, Komodo has a very good record against grandmasters when giving two White pawns in Rapid.
I truly believe that GM Ben Finegold would have a fair and very even match against Komnodo with two pawns odds (c2/f2) or other similar two pawns odds configuration at Time control of 15 + 10 sec increment. GM Ben is very popular with his Youtube followers here he made $2,385 in donations which is more than GM Smerdon ever made playing any engine, but GM Ben would benefit tremendously by playing versus Komodo since he has such a great amount of fans that follow him on Youtube ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9eXfqsufhw

PS: Now two pawns Odds at Time control of 45 Minutes or greater would be hard even for Komodo latest version, the more time you give the human players rated higher than 2350 that better they come out with a plan and avoid blunders :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdcqRBgxFs

Did you can reach GM Ben Finegold
Phone: 678-628-5615.
Komodo has an overwhelming score against GMs, even ones around 2600, at 45' + 15" when giving two White pawns, although not specifically c2/f2. Even with f2/g2, e2/f2, b2/g2, and c2/g2 Komodo has a huge plus at this TC. But with two Black pawns missing it's not so easy for Komodo at that time control with strong GMs. I emailed Ben, let's give him time to reply. I would perhaps propose that he choose any two White pawns for a four to six game match, but they have to be a different pair each time, he can't choose f2/g2 every time! But even with f2/g2, surely the worst case, we drew Lenderman at 45' + 15" and drew MVL (who was world number 1 in rapid not long after the Komodo match) at 15' + 2".
Komodo rules!

Chessqueen
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 am
Full name: Nancy M Pichardo

Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by Chessqueen » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 am

lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:02 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:35 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
Well, we know that knight odds is too much, because David Smerdon won by 5-1 vs. Komodo just a month ago at 15' +10", and he is only about 30 elo above Finegold. But two pawns is another story entirely. Although Van Foreest (2682) beat Stockfish 2 to 1 at 30" + 10" with two White pawns, Komodo has a very good record against grandmasters when giving two White pawns in Rapid.
I truly believe that GM Ben Finegold would have a fair and very even match against Komnodo with two pawns odds (c2/f2) or other similar two pawns odds configuration at Time control of 15 + 10 sec increment. GM Ben is very popular with his Youtube followers here he made $2,385 in donations which is more than GM Smerdon ever made playing any engine, but GM Ben would benefit tremendously by playing versus Komodo since he has such a great amount of fans that follow him on Youtube ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9eXfqsufhw

PS: Now two pawns Odds at Time control of 45 Minutes or greater would be hard even for Komodo latest version, the more time you give the human players rated higher than 2350 that better they come out with a plan and avoid blunders :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdcqRBgxFs

Did you can reach GM Ben Finegold
Phone: 678-628-5615.
Komodo has an overwhelming score against GMs, even ones around 2600, at 45' + 15" when giving two White pawns, although not specifically c2/f2. Even with f2/g2, e2/f2, b2/g2, and c2/g2 Komodo has a huge plus at this TC. But with two Black pawns missing it's not so easy for Komodo at that time control with strong GMs. I emailed Ben, let's give him time to reply. I would perhaps propose that he choose any two White pawns for a four to six game match, but they have to be a different pair each time, he can't choose f2/g2 every time! But even with f2/g2, surely the worst case, we drew Lenderman at 45' + 15" and drew MVL (who was world number 1 in rapid not long after the Komodo match) at 15' + 2".
Can you post those two games we drew Lenderman at 45' + 15" and drew MVL (who was world number 1 in rapid not long after the Komodo match) at 15' + 2". Even if GM Ben Finegold lose 4 games and draw 2 out of 6 games we human will be extremely proud of his performancve, and at the same time he will make a lot of Money on his Youtube Channel plus we will also be watching and donating Money :roll:

lkaufman
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Re: Stockfish Handicap Matches

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:15 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 am
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:02 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:35 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:39 pm
Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:13 am
Made a summary of the knight-odds discussion, includes the download of 6000 games.

http://rebel13.nl/rebel13/experiments.html#11
As I mentioned before in a previous post engines above 2700 SSDF are overrated compared to Human, therefore, when you concluded that the turning point lies around ~~2700 elo for engines, we can not conclude that most GM's around ~~2700 elo will lose against Stockfish with a knight Odds. As you will notice that a human rated around 2500 FIDE like GM Ben Finegold knows how to take advantage better than any engine rated around ~~2700 by the SSDF since those engines do not know how to force the trade of other pieces when winning bu a Knight or Bishop. Here I will show you what GM Ben Finegold was saying the day of GM Smerdon vs Komodo Knight Odds ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU

PS: It also look like GM Ben was making fun of Stockfish, so he should be the next match against Komodo with the (c2/f2) pawns Odds, and see if he can show us how to beat Komodo. Also Noticed that GM Ben Finegold made more Money $$$.$$ than GM Smerdon receiving Donations just to make commentaries :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cZEFhPPOU
In 2002 on a poor Athlon PC Rebel at tournament time control was already able to keep its feet dry (2-2) against a 2700+ elo rated GM. It's not the same as Komodo playing knight odds but the elo gap between Komodo (2020) running at x threads vs Rebel (2002) on an Athlon and semi blitz blitz vs tournament time control is so big I don't hold my breath.
Well, we know that knight odds is too much, because David Smerdon won by 5-1 vs. Komodo just a month ago at 15' +10", and he is only about 30 elo above Finegold. But two pawns is another story entirely. Although Van Foreest (2682) beat Stockfish 2 to 1 at 30" + 10" with two White pawns, Komodo has a very good record against grandmasters when giving two White pawns in Rapid.
I truly believe that GM Ben Finegold would have a fair and very even match against Komnodo with two pawns odds (c2/f2) or other similar two pawns odds configuration at Time control of 15 + 10 sec increment. GM Ben is very popular with his Youtube followers here he made $2,385 in donations which is more than GM Smerdon ever made playing any engine, but GM Ben would benefit tremendously by playing versus Komodo since he has such a great amount of fans that follow him on Youtube ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9eXfqsufhw

PS: Now two pawns Odds at Time control of 45 Minutes or greater would be hard even for Komodo latest version, the more time you give the human players rated higher than 2350 that better they come out with a plan and avoid blunders :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdcqRBgxFs

Did you can reach GM Ben Finegold
Phone: 678-628-5615.
Komodo has an overwhelming score against GMs, even ones around 2600, at 45' + 15" when giving two White pawns, although not specifically c2/f2. Even with f2/g2, e2/f2, b2/g2, and c2/g2 Komodo has a huge plus at this TC. But with two Black pawns missing it's not so easy for Komodo at that time control with strong GMs. I emailed Ben, let's give him time to reply. I would perhaps propose that he choose any two White pawns for a four to six game match, but they have to be a different pair each time, he can't choose f2/g2 every time! But even with f2/g2, surely the worst case, we drew Lenderman at 45' + 15" and drew MVL (who was world number 1 in rapid not long after the Komodo match) at 15' + 2".
Can you post those two games we drew Lenderman at 45' + 15" and drew MVL (who was world number 1 in rapid not long after the Komodo match) at 15' + 2". Even if GM Ben Finegold lose 4 games and draw 2 out of 6 games we human will be extremely proud of his performancve, and at the same time he will make a lot of Money on his Youtube Channel plus we will also be watching and donating Money :roll:
He replied that he was too busy for a match at this time. Another option might be Evgenij Miroshnichenko, who also covered the Komodo-Smerdon match on his show, and since he was rated nearly 2700 FIDE a decade ago he has a reasonable claim to being a suitable replacement for Van Foreest. I can probably find the Lenderman game; the MVL-Komodo match is available to watch on the internet, including the above-mentioned game.
Komodo rules!

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