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Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am
by Nordlandia
Is all hope gone for white here ?
[d]r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "68"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "450+7"]
6... Rad8 {0.52/15 7.8s} 7. Rd2 {0.00/40 37} Bxf3 {0.92/13 12} 8. gxf3 {
0.00/41 5.6s} Kg7 {0.97/12 8.9s} 9. Kf1 {0.00/38 9.1s} Rfe8 {1.20/12 20} 10.
Rxd8 {0.00/40 8.7s} Rxe6 {1.28/14 18} 11. Rd5 {-0.16/41 30} Re5 {1.29/14 11}
12. Rd7+ {-0.33/40 25} Re7 {1.50/14 17} 13. Rxe7+ {-0.13/40 18} Nxe7 {1.46/16
13} 14. h4 {-0.18/40 7.4s} Ng6 {1.45/15 12} 15. hxg5 {-0.48/37 15} hxg5 {
1.43/15 9.6s} 16. Ke2 {-0.49/44 49} Ne5 {1.88/11 26} 17. Nd2 {-0.79/44 8.9s}
Bc5 {1.94/11 13} 18. Nb3 {-1.31/45 59} Bd6 {2.04/12 21} 19. Nd4 {-0.95/40 8.7s}
Kf6 {2.09/11 29} 20. Nc2 {-1.32/46 38} Ke6 {2.11/11 11} 21. b3 {-1.41/48 16}
Bc7 {2.78/10 21} 22. Nd4+ {-1.50/47 20} Kd7 {3.08/11 23} 23. b4 {-1.59/215 16}
Bd8 {4.71/9 26} 24. Nb3 {-1.61/48 9.0s} Kc6 {5.19/9 17} 25. Nc5 {-1.61/50 26}
Be7 {6.27/10 12} 26. Ne4 {-2.22/48 23} Kb5 {7.77/9 16} 27. Nd2 {-4.97/43 137s}
Ka4 {7.18/10 14} 28. Nb1 {-5.31/34 6.8s} Bd6 {6.92/10 35} 29. Nd2 {-5.80/37 26}
Ka3 {13.19/8 8.5s} 30. Kd1 {-5.98/31 10} Kxa2 {13.88/8 21} 31. Kc1 {-4.16/31 1.
4s} Be7 {14.97/8 21} 32. Kc2 {-6.87/34 21} Ka3 {15.68/8 17} 33. Kb1 {-4.55/29
2.0s} Ka4 {17.05/7 17} 34. Kb2 {-6.16/36 15} b6 {17.62/7 15} 35. Ka2 {-7.05/27
4.1s} a5 {16.84/7 17} 36. bxa5 {-6.11/33 1.2s} bxa5 {16.89/8 8.3s} 37. Ka1 {
-8.80/33 15} Kb5 {20.16/7 21} 38. Ka2 {-9.18/32 2.6s} a4 {19.80/7 20} 39. Kb1 {
-10.46/29 5.3s} Nc4 {18.31/7 17} 40. Ne4 {adjudication -8.72/29 5.7s, Black
wins by adjudication} 0-1[/pgn]
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm
by Nordlandia
Game duration 3.5 hours. SF contempt -24
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "44"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "9000+30"]
6... Rad8 {0.49/22 99s} 7. Rd2 {-0.67/47 500s} Bxf3 {1.09/17 152s} 8. gxf3 {
-0.31/46 200s} Kg7 {1.13/17 116s} 9. Rde2 {-0.51/50 209s} Rf6 {1.19/18 178s}
10. R6e4 {-1.06/51 815s} Rf5 {1.20/18 143s} 11. h4 {-0.60/50 227s} Rd7 {
1.25/17 179s} 12. Kg2 {-0.83/45 427s} Bd8 {1.29/18 212s} 13. Rc2 {-1.12/45 398s
} Kf7 {1.72/20 405s} 14. Rce2 {-1.13/47 376s} Bf6 {1.93/15 282s} 15. Rd2 {
-1.49/58 142s} Rfd5 {2.34/16 210s} 16. Rxd5 {-1.49/49 294s} Rxd5 {2.40/16 120s}
17. Kf1 {-1.59/49 270s} Rd1+ {3.22/21 256s} 18. Kg2 {-2.85/50 878s} Rb1 {
3.98/17 209s} 19. Re2 {-2.52/46 119s} Ne5 {4.72/16 209s} 20. Rd2 {-2.38/43 60s}
b6 {4.94/16 185s} 21. a4 {-3.73/46 266s} a5 {5.11/17 197s} 22. Rd5 {-5.68/43
1017s} Rxb2 {7.62/13 291s} 23. Nd4 {-5.68/41 108s} Ke7 {8.03/12 201s} 24. Kf1 {
-5.86/39 387s} Ng6 {10.86/11 438s} 25. hxg5 {-6.55/42 414s} hxg5 {10.70/11 96s}
26. Nc6+ {-7.26/42 427s} Ke6 {12.40/11 280s} 27. c4 {-7.24/41 151s} Nh4 {
12.09/11 177s} 28. Rd3 {adjudication -7.24/39 46s, Black wins by adjudication}
0-1[/pgn]
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:55 pm
by zullil
Nordlandia wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am
Is all hope gone for white here ?
Well, White's bishop seems rather useless.
Doesn't move in either of your playouts.
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:17 am
by jp
Nordlandia wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am
Is all hope gone for white here ?
r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
Umm... you've posted this position before, right?
It looks very much like a draw. (i.e. the analysis from last time, not the first impression.) Sure, White has to grovel but he gets the draw with accurate play. I don't think short TC games help much. With little time, White will go astray.
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 pm
by Dr.Wael Deeb
Nordlandia wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am
Is all hope gone for white here ?
[d]r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "68"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "450+7"]
6... Rad8 {0.52/15 7.8s} 7. Rd2 {0.00/40 37} Bxf3 {0.92/13 12} 8. gxf3 {
0.00/41 5.6s} Kg7 {0.97/12 8.9s} 9. Kf1 {0.00/38 9.1s} Rfe8 {1.20/12 20} 10.
Rxd8 {0.00/40 8.7s} Rxe6 {1.28/14 18} 11. Rd5 {-0.16/41 30} Re5 {1.29/14 11}
12. Rd7+ {-0.33/40 25} Re7 {1.50/14 17} 13. Rxe7+ {-0.13/40 18} Nxe7 {1.46/16
13} 14. h4 {-0.18/40 7.4s} Ng6 {1.45/15 12} 15. hxg5 {-0.48/37 15} hxg5 {
1.43/15 9.6s} 16. Ke2 {-0.49/44 49} Ne5 {1.88/11 26} 17. Nd2 {-0.79/44 8.9s}
Bc5 {1.94/11 13} 18. Nb3 {-1.31/45 59} Bd6 {2.04/12 21} 19. Nd4 {-0.95/40 8.7s}
Kf6 {2.09/11 29} 20. Nc2 {-1.32/46 38} Ke6 {2.11/11 11} 21. b3 {-1.41/48 16}
Bc7 {2.78/10 21} 22. Nd4+ {-1.50/47 20} Kd7 {3.08/11 23} 23. b4 {-1.59/215 16}
Bd8 {4.71/9 26} 24. Nb3 {-1.61/48 9.0s} Kc6 {5.19/9 17} 25. Nc5 {-1.61/50 26}
Be7 {6.27/10 12} 26. Ne4 {-2.22/48 23} Kb5 {7.77/9 16} 27. Nd2 {-4.97/43 137s}
Ka4 {7.18/10 14} 28. Nb1 {-5.31/34 6.8s} Bd6 {6.92/10 35} 29. Nd2 {-5.80/37 26}
Ka3 {13.19/8 8.5s} 30. Kd1 {-5.98/31 10} Kxa2 {13.88/8 21} 31. Kc1 {-4.16/31 1.
4s} Be7 {14.97/8 21} 32. Kc2 {-6.87/34 21} Ka3 {15.68/8 17} 33. Kb1 {-4.55/29
2.0s} Ka4 {17.05/7 17} 34. Kb2 {-6.16/36 15} b6 {17.62/7 15} 35. Ka2 {-7.05/27
4.1s} a5 {16.84/7 17} 36. bxa5 {-6.11/33 1.2s} bxa5 {16.89/8 8.3s} 37. Ka1 {
-8.80/33 15} Kb5 {20.16/7 21} 38. Ka2 {-9.18/32 2.6s} a4 {19.80/7 20} 39. Kb1 {
-10.46/29 5.3s} Nc4 {18.31/7 17} 40. Ne4 {adjudication -8.72/29 5.7s, Black
wins by adjudication} 0-1[/pgn]
White is practically one piece down ....
Dr.D
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:42 am
by jp
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 pm
White is practically one piece down ...
... but it's not enough for Black to win against best play (it seems).
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am
by Dr.Wael Deeb
jp wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:42 am
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 pm
White is practically one piece down ...
... but it's not enough for Black to win against best play (it seems).
Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
Cheers
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 am
by jp
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am
Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
I don't think it's enough for Black to play accurately. White has also to play inaccurately for Black to win.
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:06 pm
by Nordlandia
jp wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 am
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am
Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
I don't think it's enough for Black to play accurately. White has also to play inaccurately for Black to win.
Then we can ask how can white address the problem bishop on h2 without compromising the stability of the position. In order for white to being able to hold, it has to be addressed. Otherwise all indications suggest white will remain a piece down practially speaking.
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:22 am
by Ovyron
Nordlandia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:06 pm
Then we can ask how can white address the problem bishop on h2 without compromising the stability of the position. In order for white to being able to hold, it has to be addressed. Otherwise all indications suggest white will remain a piece down practially speaking.
This is the easiest thing to do. Change the white bishop on h2 for a pawn, creating an alternative position were black is winning. Compare the best lines from the real and this new position ignoring those where white advances this pawn. There will be a point at which white can save itself because it can move the bishop, while on the new position the pawn can't save white because it's a pawn.
Too bad nothing is at stake because no actual game is being played, so the truth will never be known.