Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:41 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:59 pm
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:26 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:22 pm
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:27 pm
Hi
Dragon 4.6 the french monster destroyed me in the first game as I tired to build a solid defense but at the end I blundered heavily and lost the game .....
In the second game I steered the 1. b3 opening into a draw position hoping to outplay it in the end game abut yet again due to poor late middle game skills I only managed to escape with half a point ....
Regardless of whay I wrote above,Dragon 4.6 performance is relatively weak against other chess engines but seemingly tuned anti-human when programmed maybe ....
Standings so far:
- 1. CT800 1.40 x64 13/18
2. Amy 0.8.7b 11.5/18
3. Dr.Deeb 11.5/16
4. Tigran 2.4n x64 10.5/18
5. Gosu 0.16 9.5/18
6. Dragon 4.6 8/16
7. Patzer 3.61l Leiden 7.5/18
8. Patzer 3.80 7/18
9. KnightDreamer 3.3 6.5/18
10. Simplex 0.9.8 x64 1/18
[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon 4.6"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A53"]
[WhiteElo "2404"]
[BlackElo "2042"]
[Annotator "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 bmi2 (40m)"]
[PlyCount "65"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
{A53: Old Indian Defence without Nf3} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 4. e4 e5
5. d5 Be7 6. f3 O-O 7. Be3 c6 8. Qd2 cxd5 9. cxd5 a6 10. Bd3 {last book move.
Black's piece can't move: c8} Nc5 11. Bc2 a5 12. Nge2 Ne8 13. O-O Bd7 14. a3 h6
{Consolidates g5} (14... a4 15. Nc1 $11) 15. b4 $14 axb4 16. axb4 Rxa1 17. Rxa1
Na6 18. Ba4 {White intends b5} (18. Rb1 Bg5 $11) 18... Bxa4 $11 19. Nxa4 Bg5
20. b5 Bxe3+ 21. Qxe3 Nac7 (21... Nb4 $142 $5 {is worth looking at} 22. Rb1 Qa5
$11) 22. Nac3 $16 Qc8 23. Ng3 (23. h3 $5 Nf6 24. Qb6 $16) 23... Nf6 $14 24. Ra7
(24. b6 $5 Na6 25. Nf5 $16) 24... g6 $11 {Prevents intrusion on f5+h5} 25. Nge2
Na8 26. b6 Nd7 {Black threatens to win material: Nd7xb6} 27. Nb5 {White
threatens to win material: Nb5xd6} Qb8 (27... Qc4 $5 {must be considered} 28.
Nec3 Naxb6 $11) 28. Qxh6 $14 Naxb6 $4 (28... Qd8 29. Qe3 Nc5 $14) 29. Ra3 (29.
h4 $142 {and White can already relax} Nc8 30. Ra1 $18) 29... Nf6 $4 {spoils
everything} (29... Nc4 $142 {this is the best way to fight back} 30. Rc3 Qd8
$11) 30. f4 $18 Qc8 (30... Ng4 {does not save the day} 31. Qh4 Qc8 32. Rc3 $18)
31. Rh3 Nh5 32. Rxh5 gxh5 33. Nxd6 1-0[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dr.Deeb"]
[Black "Dragon 4.6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A01"]
[WhiteElo "2042"]
[BlackElo "2404"]
[Annotator "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 bmi2 (40m)"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
{A01: Nimzowitsch-Larsen Opening} 1. b3 e5 2. Bb2 d6 3. e3 g6 4. d4 Nd7 5. dxe5
Bg7 6. Nf3 {last book move} Nxe5 7. Nxe5 Bxe5 8. Bxe5 dxe5 9. Qxd8+ Kxd8 {
Black loses the right to castle} 10. Nc3 Be6 11. O-O-O+ Kc8 $2 (11... Ke7 $142
$11 {and Black can hope to live}) 12. Ne4 $16 Bf5 $2 (12... a5 13. a4 b6 $16)
13. Bd3 $4 {throws away the game} (13. Ng5 $142 {and White wins} Nh6 14. e4 $18
) 13... Bxe4 $11 14. Bxe4 f5 (14... Nf6 15. f3 $11) 15. Bf3 (15. Bd5 Nf6 $11)
15... Nf6 $11 16. h3 {Prevents intrusion on g4} c6 {Covers d5} 17. g4 Kc7 18.
a4 e4 {Black threatens to win material: e4xf3} 19. Be2 fxg4 20. hxg4 h5 21.
gxh5 gxh5 {Black has a new passed pawn: h5} 22. Rh4 Rag8 23. Rdh1 Rg5 24. Rf4
Rh6 25. Bf1 a6 {Consolidates b5} 26. Kb2 Kb8 27. Rh2 b5 28. axb5 axb5 29. Rg2
Rxg2 30. Bxg2 {Attacks the isolani on e4} h4 31. c4 b4 32. Bh3 Kc7 33. Bf5 {
White threatens to win material: Bf5xe4} Kd6 34. Bh3 {In the style of Nimzovich
} Ke7 35. Kc2 c5 36. Kd2 Rh5 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
Where do you get all these engines? I tried the links on the CCRL page for every one of them (except top and bottom), and in every case I get some error message or strange website, I didn't see a single one available.
Hi Larry,
In general I take a first look here :
http://www.computer-chess.org/doku.php? ... nload_list
Most of the engines I find via Google and then if this fails,I ask here in the forum
OK, thanks, at least Tigran and Dragon were available from that list. I don't have time for multi-hour games but I thought I might try some 10' +5" games with them just to get an idea of the level. In general fast time limits favor the engines so I probably won't do well, but at least I should get some idea.
Cheers,
Dr.D
It will be interesting to play against them even at this short time control ....
Well it's getting harder to get a win climbing the rating list I didn't even scratch the 2450 level ....
A lot of draws and no wins for a long time now ....
The only engine I got working easily was Tigran 2.4n, but that was a good choice anyway as I believe it got a win and a draw from you and is in third place among the engines on your list. I played two games at 10' +5" (on my fast laptop, same speed as your fast computer), one with each color, opening book on, and got same result as you. I drew easily with White, even had better chances at various points, and lost an exciting game where I sacrificed for attack but it defended well. Probably I'll need to play more games to have a better idea, but allowing for the fast tc I would say that it should probably be rated somewhere between its 2183 CEGT rating and its 2400+ CCRL rating, which is probably what you would say as well. It makes too many strategic errors to be considered really strong, but it does reach high depths which makes it tactically accurate. Maybe the newer engines can outsearch old ones due to LMR and such, but if they have similar ratings it must be due to far less chess knowledge than the best ones of twenty years ago, and I think this matters much more vs. humans than vs. other engines. I suppose this is your point too.
Here are the games. I don't know why all evals show 0.01, but it doesn't matter, it is playing properly as I've verified with some games vs. other engines.
[Event "Blitz 10min+5sec"]
[Site "Bethesda"]
[Date "2020.07.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kaufman, Larry"]
[Black "Tigran 2.4n"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B11"]
[Annotator "Kaufman,Larry"]
[PlyCount "155"]
[TimeControl "600+5"]
{512MB, Hiarcs14ziBook.ctg, alienware laptop} 1. e4 {0} c6 {B 0} 2. Nf3 {6} d5
{B 1} 3. Nc3 {2} Bg4 {B 0} 4. h3 {3} Bxf3 {B 0} 5. Qxf3 {3} Nf6 {B 0} 6. Be2 {6
} e6 {B 0} 7. O-O {8} Nbd7 {B 0} 8. d4 {4} Nxe4 {B 1} 9. Nxe4 {3} dxe4 {B 0}
10. Qxe4 {1} Nf6 {B 1} 11. Qd3 {4} Bd6 {B 0} 12. g3 {20} O-O {0.01/12 31} 13.
Bf3 {3} Qb6 {0.01/13 30} 14. c4 {48} Rfd8 {0.01/13 28} 15. Be3 {85} Be7 {
0.01/14 0} 16. Qc2 {36} Rd7 {0.01/12 18} 17. d5 {38} Bc5 {0.01/14 28} 18. dxe6
{16} fxe6 {0.01/14 10} 19. Bxc5 {42} Qxc5 {0.01/15 20} 20. Rfe1 {5} Qf5 {
0.01/14 26} 21. Qxf5 {21} exf5 {0.01/16 4} 22. Rad1 {10} Rad8 {0.01/17 9} 23.
Rxd7 {4} Rxd7 {0.01/15 14} 24. Rd1 {1} Kf7 {0.01/16 24} 25. Rxd7+ {16} Nxd7 {
0.01/18 22} 26. Be2 {19} Nc5 {0.01/16 17} 27. f4 {46} Ke6 {0.01/17 22} 28. Kf2
{117} Na4 {0.01/19 17} 29. b4 {28} Nc3 {0.01/19 0} 30. a3 {10} Nxe2 {0.01/19 0}
31. Kxe2 {4} b6 {0.01/18 6} 32. Ke3 {16} c5 {0.01/18 5} 33. b5 {13} Kf7 {
0.01/20 22} 34. Kf3 {7} h6 {0.01/20 21} 35. g4 {25} Kf6 {0.01/22 0} 36. Kg3 {18
} fxg4 {0.01/23 17} 37. hxg4 {13} Ke6 {0.01/23 20} 38. Kh4 {7} g6 {0.01/22 19}
39. Kg3 {54} Ke7 {0.01/22 0} 40. Kh4 {25} Kf7 {0.01/21 0} 41. Kg3 {3} Kf6 {
0.01/19 13} 42. Kh4 {3} h5 {0.01/17 1} 43. f5 {15} hxg4 {0.01/20 19} 44. fxg6 {
3} Kg7 {0.01/22 10} 45. Kg3 {10} Kh6 {0.01/22 18} 46. Kf4 {6} Kg7 {0.01/23 18}
47. Kxg4 {1} Kxg6 {0.01/23 15} 48. Kf4 {2} Kf6 {0.01/21 2} 49. Ke4 {3} Ke6 {
0.01/21 14} 50. Kf4 {2} Kf6 {0.01/23 2} 51. Ke4 {4} Ke6 {0.01/23 13} 52. a4 {2}
Kd6 {0.01/22 16} 53. Kf5 {2} Kd7 {0.01/22 12} 54. Kf6 {6} Kd6 {0.01/21 0} 55.
Kf5 {10} Kd7 {0.01/24 6} 56. Ke5 {14} Ke7 {0.01/22 12} 57. Kd5 {2} Kd7 {
0.01/20 1} 58. a5 {6} bxa5 {0.01/19 16} 59. Kxc5 {2} Kc7 {0.01/18 11} 60. Kd5 {
6} a4 {0.01/21 15} 61. Kd4 {2} Kb6 {0.01/19 2} 62. Kd3 {7} a3 {0.01/20 7} 63.
Kc3 {3} a2 {0.01/20 11} 64. Kb2 {3} a1=R {0.01/20 11} 65. Kxa1 {3} a6 {0/0 0}
66. bxa6 {7} Kxa6 {0/0 0} 67. Kb2 {3} Ka5 {0/0 0} 68. Kc3 {4} Kb6 {0/1 0} 69.
Kd4 {4} Kc6 {0/1 0} 70. c5 {3} Kb7 {0/0 0} 71. Kd5 {4} Kc7 {0/1 0} 72. c6 {2}
Kc8 {0/1 0} 73. Kd6 {2} Kd8 {0/1 0} 74. Kd5 {4} Kc7 {0/0 0} 75. Kc5 {2} Kc8 {
0/1 0} 76. Kb6 {3} Kb8 {0/1 0} 77. c7+ {2} Kc8 {0/1 0} 78. Kc6 {2} 1/2-1/2
[Event "Blitz 10min+5sec"]
[Site "Bethesda"]
[Date "2020.07.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n"]
[Black "Kaufman, Larry"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A28"]
[Annotator "Kaufman,Larry"]
[PlyCount "85"]
[TimeControl "600+5"]
{512MB, Hiarcs14ziBook.ctg, alienware laptop} 1. c4 {B 0} Nf6 {12} 2. Nc3 {B 0}
e5 {3} 3. Nf3 {B 0} Nc6 {3} 4. d3 {B 0} Bb4 {21} 5. e4 {B 0} O-O {8} 6. Be2 {
B 0} Bxc3+ {14} 7. bxc3 {B 0} d6 {2} 8. O-O {B 0} h6 {28} 9. Rb1 {B 0} b6 {13}
10. h3 {0.01/14 20} Be6 {26} 11. Qc2 {0.01/13 20} Ne7 {30} 12. Be3 {0.01/13 29}
Ng6 {14} 13. Qd2 {0.01/13 8} Nd7 {38} 14. Rb2 {0.01/12 28} f5 {15} 15. exf5 {
0.01/13 23} Bxf5 {32} 16. d4 {0.01/12 0} e4 {43} 17. Nh2 {0.01/13 19} Qh4 {42}
18. c5 {0.01/13 0} dxc5 {39} 19. Bc4+ {0.01/13 27} Kh8 {5} 20. g4 {0.01/13 7}
Qxh3 {45} 21. gxf5 {0.01/14 0} Nh4 {27} 22. f3 {0.01/13 0} exf3 {106} 23. Be6 {
0.01/12 20} Nf6 {28} 24. Bf4 {0.01/11 0} Ne4 {24} 25. Qe1 {0.01/13 1} f2+ {32}
26. Rbxf2 {0.01/14 0} Nxf2 {3} 27. Qxf2 {0.01/14 16} cxd4 {15} 28. cxd4 {
0.01/14 18} Rae8 {16} 29. Qg3 {0.01/16 25} Qxg3+ {15} 30. Bxg3 {0.01/18 9} g5 {
9} 31. Bxc7 {0.01/16 19} h5 {27} 32. d5 {0.01/16 0} g4 {6} 33. d6 {0.01/16 23}
Kg7 {16} 34. d7 {0.01/16 17} Ra8 {4} 35. Be5+ {0.01/16 18} Kh6 {3} 36. Bf4+ {
0.01/15 16} Kg7 {2} 37. Bg5 {0.01/15 2} Nf3+ {12} 38. Nxf3 {0.01/15 21} gxf3 {0
} 39. Rxf3 {0.01/15 21} Rfb8 {15} 40. f6+ {0.01/15 20} Kg6 {5} 41. Bh4 {
0.01/16 0} Rf8 {6} 42. Rg3+ {0.01/15 0} Kh6 {5} 43. Rg7 {0.01/17 15} 1-0