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Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:01 am
by Dr.Wael Deeb
carldaman wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:29 am
It's always interesting to see what the engine will come up with on its own, but positionally-deficient 2400-level programs usually tend to play crummy, exploitable openings on their own. Even stronger A-B engines will struggle in that phase. Dr Deeb's job probably won't get any harder that way.
An excellent point and fully agreed ....

It will make my life much easier people :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Dr.D

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:36 pm
by carldaman
Dr. Deeb, if you're ever lacking for a real challenge, you're welcome to take on Nezh, the ultimate attacking anti-human (and anti-computer!) genius -- just click on the link in my sig below. :)

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:34 pm
by Dr.Wael Deeb
carldaman wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Dr. Deeb, if you're ever lacking for a real challenge, you're welcome to take on Nezh, the ultimate attacking anti-human (and anti-computer!) genius -- just click on the link in my sig below. :)
Thanks,I'll give a run ....

Right now I am clashing with Tigran 2.4n leading the black army :evil:

Cheers

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:22 am
by Dr.Wael Deeb
Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe :D

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy


Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:11 am
by carldaman
Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well. :)

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:38 am
by lkaufman
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:22 am
Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe :D

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:42 am
by Ovyron
carldaman wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:11 am
Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well. :)
I'm waiting for Dr.Wael Deeb Vs. Romichess. It could be the engine that stops the run cold, and not specially because of strength (or she'd be higher on the list), but style alone. If not, the game where he beats Romi would be amazing!

I hope it happens without book, but learning on, imagine if on future tries Romi plays Dr.Wael Deeb's moves against him :lol:

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 am
by carldaman
Yes, :mrgreen: Romi could then play the Old Indian, too!

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:18 am
by carldaman
lkaufman wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:38 am
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:22 am
Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe :D

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.
Again, I think the lower you go down the rating list, engines will have vastly different strengths and weaknesses and the earned Elo is just an average figure of those. Not all 2400-level engines are cut from the same cloth, we can be sure of that.

Just as there are human players who are good anti-computer specialists, and others who are not, but who may otherwise be of similar strength, we also have engines that are more susceptible to anti-computer strategies and others that are less so.

Re: Et Mortuus Est Rex

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:28 am
by Ovyron
Yes, that could also explain the "Elo collapse" observed the more you go up the list. It's because engines didn't get better Elo because they played better chess, but because they got increasingly better at exploiting engine's mistakes (mainly, the mistakes of the old version of the same engine.)