Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

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Vinvin
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Vinvin » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:57 pm

Milos wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:30 pm
syzygy wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:38 pm
It seems Fritz 9 reached about 480knps on a 1Ghz Pentium III:
http://www.jens-hartmann.at/Fritzmarks/

I have no idea when Fritz 9 was released.

This article mentions 4Mnps:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1466810.stm
That Pentium III 1GHz number seems to be inflated since Pentium 4 and 2GHz shows 688knps (and all other Pentium 4 benchmarks agree). So at best Pentium III 1GHz should get around 340knps, and Pentium III Xeon 933MHz around 300knps. Which leads us to assumption that 8 CPUs at best scaling (which was almost certainly not the case in practice) would have around 2.4Mnps. So they lied a lot.
Not really, the Pentium 4 is known to do less thing per clock cycle. It was a will from Intel to produce a processor with very high frequency but sacrifice optimization. This changed completely with Pentium-M and Core-2 : - a 1.6 GHz Pentium M can typically attain or even surpass the performance of a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4-M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M#Overview

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M ANSARI
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by M ANSARI » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:30 am

Oh I remember that match. I actually went there to watch it live as it was only an hour flight away. I do remember at the time that this was extremely powerful hardware for that period.

syzygy
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by syzygy » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:32 pm

Vinvin wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:57 pm
Not really, the Pentium 4 is known to do less thing per clock cycle. It was a will from Intel to produce a processor with very high frequency but sacrifice optimization. This changed completely with Pentium-M and Core-2 : - a 1.6 GHz Pentium M can typically attain or even surpass the performance of a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4-M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M#Overview
Indeed, at the time Intel was convinced it could reach 10Ghz within a few years but it ran into an unexpected barrier at around 5Ghz. That barrier has still not been removed (in non-laboratory 24/7 settings).

The Pentium-M is what saved Intel and what became the basis for Core 2.

https://www.theregister.com/2000/12/11/ ... _10ghz_pc/
Intel plans $1500 10GHz PC

But not until 2005
https://www.theregister.com/2002/09/25/ ... p_in_race/
Intel eases up in race to 10GHz

...
The Pentium 4 has leapfrogged up the speed ramp, from 1.4GHz at launch in the Fall of 2000, and will hit 3GHz by the end of this year. At the P4's launch, Intel put the lifespan of Netburst at up to seven years and said that if Moore's law held true, the company had the headroom to break the 10GHz mark by 2006.

The vendor has consistently said the Netburst architecture can scale up to 10GHz. However, Siu last week appeared to suggest that the drive to higher speeds will moderate in the coming years. Prescott will underpin the vendor's desktop line through 2004, he said. "I don't think Prescott will hit 10GHz in this iteration," he said. More significantly, perhaps, he described Netburst as having a ten year cycle, implying that Intel's race to the 10GHz mark will not be as break-neck as some may have expected.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/680/6
The future of Intel's manufacturing processes
by Anand Lal Shimpi on December 11, 2000 1:23 AM EST

10GHz by 2005 running at < 1 volt

...

13 Comments
View All Comments

SlyNine - Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - link
It'll be much much longer then we all thought. :P
Reply
cdurkinz - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
You had no idea.... Just checking in, another decade on from when this article released! ;)

Vinvin
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Vinvin » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:47 am

Thanks for all your answers !
I sent a mail to the Chessbase support in the hope to get more clear information !

Vinvin
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Vinvin » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:23 pm

Vinvin wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:47 am
Thanks for all your answers !
I sent a mail to the Chessbase support in the hope to get more clear information !
Chessbase support confirmed the 8 x 900 MHz.

Code: Select all

De : Peter Schreiner (Support) <cbsupport@chessbase.com>
...
Hello,
The hardware on which Deep Fritz runs is an 8 x 900 MHz Compaq with four GB of memory. 
Not the fastest thing there is today, but certainly much more powerful than the common dual systems. 
The computer, which is slightly thicker than a standard PC, but much heavier, was delivered to Vladimir Kramnik's training camp in mid-September. 
Mathias Feist installed the last version of Deep Fritz (he was only moderately enthusiastic about the observed 3.5 million positions per second.

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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:13 pm

Vinvin wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:23 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:47 am
Thanks for all your answers !
I sent a mail to the Chessbase support in the hope to get more clear information !
Chessbase support confirmed the 8 x 900 MHz.

Code: Select all

De : Peter Schreiner (Support) <cbsupport@chessbase.com>
...
Hello,
The hardware on which Deep Fritz runs is an 8 x 900 MHz Compaq with four GB of memory. 
Not the fastest thing there is today, but certainly much more powerful than the common dual systems. 
The computer, which is slightly thicker than a standard PC, but much heavier, was delivered to Vladimir Kramnik's training camp in mid-September. 
Mathias Feist installed the last version of Deep Fritz (he was only moderately enthusiastic about the observed 3.5 million positions per second.
If my memory is correct, although it ran on 8 cores, it was later determined that it got no benefit from doing so (as opposed to running on 4 cores), for technical reasons, so for practical purposes it only benefited from 4 cores.
Komodo rules!

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M ANSARI
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by M ANSARI » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:40 am

I actually found a Fritz CD that I got at that event. It has some signatures but not sure who. I do remember meeting with Kramnik and a few other people as the daughter of the organizer was a friend. Couldn't find any hardware information but I took a scan of the cover.
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Chessqueen
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:16 pm

The Pentium-M is what saved Intel and what became the basis for Core 2.

https://www.theregister.com/2000/12/11/ ... _10ghz_pc/
Intel plans $1500 10GHz PC

But not until 2005
https://www.theregister.com/2002/09/25/ ... p_in_race/
Intel eases up in race to 10GHz

...
The Pentium 4 has leapfrogged up the speed ramp, from 1.4GHz at launch in the Fall of 2000, and will hit 3GHz by the end of this year. At the P4's launch, Intel put the lifespan of Netburst at up to seven years and said that if Moore's law held true, the company had the headroom to break the 10GHz mark by 2006.

The vendor has consistently said the Netburst architecture can scale up to 10GHz. However, Siu last week appeared to suggest that the drive to higher speeds will moderate in the coming years. Prescott will underpin the vendor's desktop line through 2004, he said. "I don't think Prescott will hit 10GHz in this iteration," he said. More significantly, perhaps, he described Netburst as having a ten year cycle, implying that Intel's race to the 10GHz mark will not be as break-neck as some may have expected.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/680/6
The future of Intel's manufacturing processes
by Anand Lal Shimpi on December 11, 2000 1:23 AM EST

10GHz by 2005 running at < 1 volt

...

13 Comments
View All Comments

SlyNine - Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - link
It'll be much much longer then we all thought. :P
Reply
cdurkinz - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
You had no idea.... Just checking in, another decade on from when this article released! ;)
[/quote]

The question that I have is which of the current single CPU chip computer can perform at the equal speed of the system used against Kramnik? And if using an updated Opening since the opening has been way way improved from 2002 for the same Engine can Beat the Champion Carlsen if somebody offer him the same Amount of Money that it was offered a younger Kramnik of the Year 2002. This would be a good way of Comparing Kramnik of 2002 to GM Carlsen of Today.

PS: Another question that I have, and I believe that if Deeper Blue that one that beat GM Kasparov in 1997 could be brought up with the same chess Software play against Carlsen nowadays what would be the final score out of 6 games ?

Chessqueen
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Chessqueen » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:18 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:16 pm
The Pentium-M is what saved Intel and what became the basis for Core 2.

https://www.theregister.com/2000/12/11/ ... _10ghz_pc/
Intel plans $1500 10GHz PC

But not until 2005
https://www.theregister.com/2002/09/25/ ... p_in_race/
Intel eases up in race to 10GHz

...
The Pentium 4 has leapfrogged up the speed ramp, from 1.4GHz at launch in the Fall of 2000, and will hit 3GHz by the end of this year. At the P4's launch, Intel put the lifespan of Netburst at up to seven years and said that if Moore's law held true, the company had the headroom to break the 10GHz mark by 2006.

The vendor has consistently said the Netburst architecture can scale up to 10GHz. However, Siu last week appeared to suggest that the drive to higher speeds will moderate in the coming years. Prescott will underpin the vendor's desktop line through 2004, he said. "I don't think Prescott will hit 10GHz in this iteration," he said. More significantly, perhaps, he described Netburst as having a ten year cycle, implying that Intel's race to the 10GHz mark will not be as break-neck as some may have expected.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/680/6
The future of Intel's manufacturing processes
by Anand Lal Shimpi on December 11, 2000 1:23 AM EST

10GHz by 2005 running at < 1 volt

...

13 Comments
View All Comments

SlyNine - Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - link
It'll be much much longer then we all thought. :P
Reply
cdurkinz - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
You had no idea.... Just checking in, another decade on from when this article released! ;)
Okay, Nobody will pay Carlsen to play Nor Carlsen would accept to play versus an Engine to get humiliated. The question that I still have is which of the current single CPU or Dual chip can perform equally to the system used against Kramnik back in 2002? Okay lets not kid ourselves once a player is out of his prime he is not the same, therefore, Kramnik was at his best probably between 1998 to 2004 and Maybe 2005, so we can NOT compare him to Carlsen NOWAWAYS. and Carlsen is NOW at his best and 5 or 8 years from NOW somebody else probably from India will take his title away. The only thing that we have to measure Carlsen nowadays to Kramnik back in 2002 when he was about Carlsen age is to use the same engine Frit and the same hardware that Kramnik played back in 2002 or a chip comparable to the one used back them. Therefore, if Carlsen does not play versus an engine soon, 15 or 20 years from now we will NOT have anything to compare him with whoever is the current Champion 15 or 20 years from NOW.

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