Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

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Pafifi
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Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by Pafifi » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am


From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?

zullil
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by zullil » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:55 am

Pafifi wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am

From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
Please review here: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... =2&t=72065

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Master Om
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by Master Om » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 am

Pafifi wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am

From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
Ng5 is draw. Bd2 wins.
Always Expect the Unexpected

Sam Watson
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by Sam Watson » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:42 am

Master Om wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 am
Pafifi wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am

From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
Ng5 is draw. Bd2 wins.
Both 1. Bd2 and 1. Ng5 win.

zullil
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by zullil » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:54 am

Sam Watson wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:42 am
Master Om wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 am
Pafifi wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am

From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
Ng5 is draw. Bd2 wins.
Both 1. Bd2 and 1. Ng5 win.
You can win after 1. Ng5 Nxa3 ?

Sam Watson
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by Sam Watson » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:37 pm

zullil wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:54 am

You can win after 1. Ng5 Nxa3 ?
My mistake. I thought the position after 2.Rxh7 Nb5 3.h4 Nd6 4.Bg3 Qd8 5.Rg7 Kh8 6.Kg2 Ne8 7.Rxf7 Rxf7 8.Nxf7 Kg8 9.Nxd8 Rxd8 10.h5 g5 11.Rf1 Nc7 12.f7 Kg7 13.Be1 Rf8 14.Bd2 Rxh7 15.h6 Kg8 16. Rxf7 Qxf7 17.Bh5 Kg8 18.Bg6 Be8 19.Bb1 Bh5 20.Bxg5 was winning, however, on more inspection all lines appear drawn.

jp
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by jp » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:16 am

Certainly, the conclusion before the last month was that 3. Ng5? only draws, and that people had been getting prematurely excited by an engine quickly finding the obvious 1. Qf6+ without caring whether it followed up with the correct 3. Bd2 two moves later. Did the most recent two or three posts in the Qf6+ thread challenge that conclusion or just confirm it?

zullil
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by zullil » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:32 am

jp wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:16 am
Certainly, the conclusion before the last month was that 3. Ng5? only draws, and that people had been getting prematurely excited by an engine quickly finding the obvious 1. Qf6+ without caring whether it followed up with the correct 3. Bd2 two moves later. Did the most recent two or three posts in the Qf6+ thread challenge that conclusion or just confirm it?
My recent search with Stockfish-nnue showed the engine abandoning Ng5 in favor of Bd2.

jp
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by jp » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:21 am

zullil wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:32 am
My recent search with Stockfish-nnue showed the engine abandoning Ng5 in favor of Bd2.
Oh, good! (From the viewpoint of being surer that we're converging towards the truth.)

I had seen new posts, but hadn't yet gone back to look over them carefully.

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Master Om
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Re: Is 1. Bd2 significantly better than 1. Ng5?

Post by Master Om » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:34 pm

Sam Watson wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:42 am
Master Om wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 am
Pafifi wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:44 am

From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
From Hard Talkchess 2020. Answer is Bd2, but I think Ng5 is also winning - and seemingly as good as Bd2?
Ng5 is draw. Bd2 wins.
Both 1. Bd2 and 1. Ng5 win.
Ng5 doesnot after nxa3!
Always Expect the Unexpected

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