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Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
by jmartus
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:29 pm
by cdani
For me a few hundred.
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:37 pm
by Dann Corbit
jmartus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
A few thousand
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:54 pm
by mwyoung
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:37 pm
jmartus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
A few thousand
Good answer! Since the laws of physics would prevent any kind of machine to be built to achieve this calculation. Let alone the energy needed to power such a device. All the stars in the universe would not be enough. The calculation is that BIG.
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:02 pm
by Cornfed
Define 'solved'.
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:03 pm
by towforce
A mathematician might create an expression that quickly and correctly categorises a position as win/draw/lose. Failing that, it's a case of watching the elo v draw ratio chart.
It's surprising that a game designed so long ago has held out this long (but go will outlast chess).
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:40 pm
by mwyoung
Cornfed wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:02 pm
Define 'solved'.
Proving any given position is a win/loss/draw. We can do this with 7 man positions and below.
And this is the position you need to solve.
[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:51 pm
by duncan
jmartus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
I think Kai thought 400 using some charts till you get all draws (but not solved) Best ask him though.
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:05 am
by mwyoung
duncan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:51 pm
jmartus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
I think Kai thought 400 using some charts till you get all draws (but not solved) Best ask him though.
This issue is like many things in physics. Your understanding and tech can get close to your objective. And still not true. 400 elo will not get you all draws, just more draws. You only need to prove one win to show this is false. And this can not be done. Chess maybe a win for white, or black with best play, or just a draw. So a chart shows you nothing without proof of solution.
Re: Chess solved?
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:08 am
by duncan
mwyoung wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:05 am
duncan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:51 pm
jmartus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:10 pm
How many more elo until chesd considered solved?
I think Kai thought 400 using some charts till you get all draws (but not solved) Best ask him though.
This issue is like many things in physics. Your understanding and tech can get close to your objective. And still not true. 400 elo will not get you all draw, just more draws. You only need to prove one win to show this is false. And this can not be done. Chess maybe a win for white, or black with best play, or just a draw. So a chart shows you nothing without proof of solution.
If in the future you get a million draws in succession, it is not proof, but evidence towards that chess is a draw, so not nothing imo.