SF-NN embedded

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Vinvin
Posts: 4868
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Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by Vinvin » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:08 pm

Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Well said !! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

corres
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Location: hungary

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by corres » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:21 pm

corres wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:22 am
syzygy wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:21 am
...
I think it is useful for official releases. There are probably many users that download Stockfish at most once a year and would have a lot of trouble to configure the network file correctly.
For developers and advanced users, embedded network files are just a nuisance.
I agree.
As we can see on abrok.eu/stockfish site nowadays the newer and newer Stoclfish have only small difference in code and in Elo. So if somebody use for e.g. 20200816 (sixteen) dated Stockfish with the most stronger NNUE-net
(nn-82215d0fd0df-814.NNUE) he get PRACTICALLY the same Stockfish as he use the last "embedded" version.
Note
1, I do not like if a program is bounded to the Net, especially in the phase of compilation.
Net is a dangerous place for every program and I want to defense my machine and my own Stockfish from any danger on the Net.
2, Developer of Stockfish said they made a "simplified" Make - file for Stockfish, but they forgot to mention which Windows compiler is good for the new Stockfish and its "simple" Make- file.
For the "Classical" Stockfish is good the Mingw-gcc x86-64 compiler, but who know what is good for NON-EMBEDDED! SF+NNUE - version?
For the shake of punctuality.

tmokonen
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Location: Kelowna
Full name: Tony Mokonen
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Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by tmokonen » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 pm

Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Spare us your arrogance. The total size of the files I have downloaded from Abrok since nets were embedded totals over 1 GB. That's only two days worth of compiles. It adds up quickly.

Damir
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Location: Denmark
Full name: Damir Desevac

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by Damir » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Yes best idea is to buy couple of SSD hardrives just in case.

Alayan
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:48 pm
Full name: Alayan Feh

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by Alayan » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:18 pm

tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Spare us your arrogance. The total size of the files I have downloaded from Abrok since nets were embedded totals over 1 GB. That's only two days worth of compiles. It adds up quickly.
Storing every single Stockfish version is completely useless.

tmokonen
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Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by tmokonen » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:20 pm

Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:18 pm
tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Spare us your arrogance. The total size of the files I have downloaded from Abrok since nets were embedded totals over 1 GB. That's only two days worth of compiles. It adds up quickly.
Storing every single Stockfish version is completely useless.
Speak for yourself. I collect engines. It's my hobby.

jhellis3
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:36 pm

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by jhellis3 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:22 pm

I agree that in general it is solution for a problem which doesn't really exist (much like hybrid eval). It wastes bandwidth, storage space, and even makes things more cumbersome in some situations.

For example, say you wanted to use an old net with a new compile. You have been using the (old) baked in net, but if you want to test it with the new compile, you will have to download it again anyway.

While I can see the appeal of embedding the net for the masses, I think this is something which should be reserved for official releases only. If people are competent enough to seek out and use the dev builds, we should expect them to be competent enough to download 1 more file.

Raphexon
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:00 am
Full name: Henk Drost

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by Raphexon » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:22 pm

tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:18 pm
tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Spare us your arrogance. The total size of the files I have downloaded from Abrok since nets were embedded totals over 1 GB. That's only two days worth of compiles. It adds up quickly.
Storing every single Stockfish version is completely useless.
Speak for yourself. I collect engines. It's my hobby.
You can compress them with 7zip or something like that...

tmokonen
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Kelowna
Full name: Tony Mokonen
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Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by tmokonen » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 pm

Raphexon wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:22 pm
tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:18 pm
tmokonen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:12 pm
It seems 20MB of disk space is prohibitively expensive, or that 20MB of download is incredibly slow on the dial-up internet of the complainers.
Spare us your arrogance. The total size of the files I have downloaded from Abrok since nets were embedded totals over 1 GB. That's only two days worth of compiles. It adds up quickly.
Storing every single Stockfish version is completely useless.
Speak for yourself. I collect engines. It's my hobby.
You can compress them with 7zip or something like that...
For sure, I do that. I see now that Roman Korba is compressing the files on the Abrok site, which cuts the file size by about half, so it will save some downloading time.

Damir
Posts: 2462
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Denmark
Full name: Damir Desevac

Re: SF-NN embedded

Post by Damir » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:30 pm

in case you have not noticed the file is even bigger now that it is compressed it says is 11 MB, the file inside is still 21 MB, which makes the whole file seize 33 MB...

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