Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

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corres
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Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by corres » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:20 pm

awsmak wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:22 am
corres wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:43 am
yurikvelo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:05 am
mwyoung wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:41 pm
There is no way Sf 12 should be getting only 1.5 mnps on 6 cores.
this is expected speed for Qualcomm CPU
AMD CPU-s are very sensitive things.
There are lot of factor what have effect on the power of an AMD CPU.
At first the power supply and its stability. It is especially important in the case of a mobile machine.
At second the cooling of the CPU. The power of an overheated CPU obviously smaller than a well cooled one.
At third setting in BIOS:
It is very comfortable using Ryzen Master to set the processor parameters, but it only works well, if the circumstances does not alter a lot. For e.g the room temperature. If you use Ryzen Master in a fresh room, it is possible your CPU will not work well in a dog-day.
There are such parameters in BIOS what you are obliged to set manually:
SMT(HT) ideally it enhances the power, but it also enhances the temperature of CPU, what decreases the power, so the result is ambiguous.
XMP-profile. In general it also enhance the full power the machine, bit enhance the temperature of CPU too.
The chosen optimization of Stockfish-binary (exe). AVX2 optimized exe give higher chess power, but it also enhance the temperature, so maybe better using popcount (modern) exe on a mobile machine.
It is also very important, when you run a chess engine, you should switch off every other application!
It is stupid things to watch film or use internet simultaneously with running a chess engine!
The most important parameter of Stockfish is the Hash. It needs at least 2Gb.
So for the full machine (64bits) it needs at least 8 Gb RAM.
Note
I use for playing chess only table PC in a well cooled case and I run only the chess engine alone!.
Thanks brother. Mine is an Asus laptop. Ryzen master is not supported and there are no controls in bios to turn off multithreading(SMT). I always close the background apps when running a tournament or analysis mode. Hash is set to 512MB. There is no overheating problem or downclocking i have noticed it is an AC controlled room.
Your processor is not smt-able and not power boost-able. Only a very simple one. It knows, what it knows.

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yurikvelo
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Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by yurikvelo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 pm

corres wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:43 am

AMD CPU-s are very sensitive things.
There are lot of factor what have effect on the power of an AMD CPU.
At first the power supply and its stability. It is especially important in the case of a mobile machine.
At second the cooling of the CPU. The power of an overheated CPU obviously smaller than a well cooled one.
At third setting in BIOS:
The most important parameter of Stockfish is the Hash. It needs at least 2Gb.

All this mentioned things do not matter at all and is a waste of effort.

ALl mentioned is all about squeezing every single ELO out of hardware - which can only be measured running at least 50K games.

This is definitely not case when topic starter bought macbook-air-style thin laptop with 15W CPU aimed at 10+ hours battery life with 1.6 kg upper weight limit (for 15" size) and 15 mm upper thickness limit

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yurikvelo
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Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by yurikvelo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:50 pm

It is very comfortable using Ryzen Master to set the processor parameters
Ryzen Master support only AM4 platform. No mobile CPU at all

awsmak
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Full name: Akshay Chacko

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by awsmak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Some of my friends and some online forums are saying that this may be due to hash pollution. I couldn't understand what they were saying. Can anyone explain it and how to avoid it?

syzygy
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by syzygy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:53 pm

awsmak wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:14 pm
Some of my friends and some online forums are saying that this may be due to hash pollution. I couldn't understand what they were saying. Can anyone explain it and how to avoid it?
No, the problem must be one of:
- you are not running the engines you think you are running, or
- the laptop engine is running in classical mode, the other in NNEU mode, or
- nps on your laptop during the game is much lower than you think because of heat problems and cpu throttling, or
- you are confused by the software you use to run the match and your laptop has been winning all the time.

Make sure you use binaries with embedded network.

If none of this applies, then your result is just a statistical aberration.

corres
Posts: 3351
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Location: hungary

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by corres » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:46 pm

yurikvelo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 pm
corres wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:43 am

AMD CPU-s are very sensitive things.
There are lot of factor what have effect on the power of an AMD CPU.
At first the power supply and its stability. It is especially important in the case of a mobile machine.
At second the cooling of the CPU. The power of an overheated CPU obviously smaller than a well cooled one.
At third setting in BIOS:
The most important parameter of Stockfish is the Hash. It needs at least 2Gb.
All this mentioned things do not matter at all and is a waste of effort.
ALl mentioned is all about squeezing every single ELO out of hardware - which can only be measured running at least 50K games.
This is definitely not case when topic starter bought macbook-air-style thin laptop with 15W CPU aimed at 10+ hours battery life with 1.6 kg upper weight limit (for 15" size) and 15 mm upper thickness limit
Really, what I wrote down about AMD CPUs are not matter at all, if somebody has only a primitive AMD CPU.
But from such a CPU what result you wait.
Last edited by corres on Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

corres
Posts: 3351
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by corres » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:54 pm

syzygy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:53 pm
...
No, the problem must be one of:
- you are not running the engines you think you are running, or
- the laptop engine is running in classical mode, the other in NNEU mode, or
- nps on your laptop during the game is much lower than you think because of heat problems and cpu throttling, or
- you are confused by the software you use to run the match and your laptop has been winning all the time.
Make sure you use binaries with embedded network.
If none of this applies, then your result is just a statistical aberration.
These are only artificial problems what nobody can reproduce.

awsmak
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 am
Full name: Akshay Chacko

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by awsmak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:09 pm

syzygy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:53 pm
awsmak wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:14 pm
Some of my friends and some online forums are saying that this may be due to hash pollution. I couldn't understand what they were saying. Can anyone explain it and how to avoid it?
No, the problem must be one of:
- you are not running the engines you think you are running, or
- the laptop engine is running in classical mode, the other in NNEU mode, or
- nps on your laptop during the game is much lower than you think because of heat problems and cpu throttling, or
- you are confused by the software you use to run the match and your laptop has been winning all the time.

Make sure you use binaries with embedded network.

If none of this applies, then your result is just a statistical aberration.
Double checked all things that you pointed out both engines are running in nnue mode. Nps in tha middle of the game is near 14mnps on laptop and 2.5mnps on smartphone.

corres
Posts: 3351
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by corres » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:28 pm

If somebody can not able to solve issues with own machine he trusts it to a most nearer college who understand better to his machine.
TC is not a service of distance for anykind laptops.

awsmak
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 am
Full name: Akshay Chacko

Re: Stockfish performing bad on ryzen cpu.

Post by awsmak » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:02 am

I have just finished conducting a tournament of 100 games in 'chess for android' apk between my laptop and smartphone. The final scores were
Stockfish 12 on laptop with built in NN= 65
Stockfish 12 on smartphone builtin NN = 35
1 point for win
1/2 point for draw
0 point for loss
Tournament was conducted in 2seconds per move level. Took around 6 hours to complete.
This means that my previous way of conducting tournament with manual inputs were a disadvantage for the laptop (still don't understand why it doesn't affect the Smartphone) . 30/100 games were won by the laptop. Is it enough? I thought with that much nps and depth laptop should easily be able to win atleast 50 games out of 100. One more thing to be noted is that I reset my laptop before this tournament before resetting I conducted a small tournament of 10 matches in which 9 were draws and 1 won by laptop. Is this normal?

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