Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

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dkappe
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by dkappe » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:03 pm

Madeleine Birchfield wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:46 pm
...and the likes of Andrew Grant have been complaining about for the past few weeks here and in the TCEC and OpenBench communities about engines copying Stockfish code and using Stockfish to help train their nets.
It would be noteworthy if Andy didn’t complain about something. Count down to Andy’s snark response...3...2...1

Angle
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by Angle » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:03 pm

Florentino wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:00 am
Nemorino 6:
- Uses a net (nemorino_net_6.nnue) trained with training data generated with Nemorino partly using nets from Stockfish

Nemorino 6.03:
- Uses a net (nemorino_net_13.nnue) trained with training data generated exclusively from Nemorino classic eval
- Uses flip instead of rotate
- Is much weaker than Nemorino 6.00 (but much stronger than any Nemorino 5.* version)
- Was created in relatively short time for TCEC FRC event
Hello, Florentino!
May I use version 6.03 with net_13 together with ver. 6.00 with net_6 in my tournaments and report results on this forum? Also I have a problem with downloading your dev. builds from bitbucket page: every time I get a message ''Project not found or access denied'' at AppVeyor page, Two months ago everything was good with downloading.
Incredibly fast systems miscount incredibly fast.

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jshriver
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by jshriver » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:28 pm

I enjoyed watching this engine play. Here is a game I just ran against Fat Fritz and Nemorino won! i5 4 threads 8gig memory, Fat Fritz was using my nvidia 1650 gpu.


Chessqueen
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:14 am

jshriver wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:28 pm
I enjoyed watching this engine play. Here is a game I just ran against Fat Fritz and Nemorino won! i5 4 threads 8gig memory, Fat Fritz was using my nvidia 1650 gpu.


Here is a position in which most human GMs will probably move its White King TO b6 and later promote, here comes the Big Surprise Nemorino promote to Queen and Ethereal resigned after thinking for 1 minute


JohnW
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by JohnW » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:58 am

Funny that when I register the engine in the Fritz 17 gui it says the name is "6.00 (AVX2/PEXT)" instead of "Nemorino 6 (NNUE)".
Even if I edit the uci file it still includes "6.00 (AVX2/PEXT)" in the name.

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jshriver
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by jshriver » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:53 pm

JohnW wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:58 am
Funny that when I register the engine in the Fritz 17 gui it says the name is "6.00 (AVX2/PEXT)" instead of "Nemorino 6 (NNUE)".
Even if I edit the uci file it still includes "6.00 (AVX2/PEXT)" in the name.
Does the same for me. I played it against Fat Frit and Nemorino crushed it. Maybe I have a weak gpu (GTX 1660) but at one point Nemorino forked Fat Fritz with a knight against queen, rook and a bishop. Talk about a blunder.

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jshriver
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by jshriver » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:22 pm

Willing to donate some GPU power to nemorino's development, have a 1660 and 960 at home and access to 2 V100's on google cloud.

Paloma
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by Paloma » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:47 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:14 am
Here is a position in which most human GMs will probably move its White King TO b6 and later promote, here comes the Big Surprise Nemorino promote to Queen and Ethereal resigned after thinking for 1 minute

Yes, 65.a8=Q is a bad move.

61. Kb6? (15#)
(61. Rd8 (13#) Ra7+ 62. Kb8 Rf7 63. a7 Rxa7 64. Kxa7 Kg7 65. Rd6 (9#))
...Rb8+ 62. Kc6 Rc8+ 63. Kb5? 16#
(63. Kb7! (13#))
...Rxc2? 64. a7 (12#, (7men)) Rc8 65. a8=Q ?? (20#)
(65. e5! (11#) Ra8 66. e6 (10#))
65... Rxa8 66. e5 (19#, (6men)

Florentino
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by Florentino » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:13 am

a8=Q is not a bad move it's simply the best move as it immediately ends the game with a win. As long as tablebases and tablebase adjudication is used, there might be shorter ways to a win than mating.

carldaman
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Re: Nemorino 6 (NNUE)

Post by carldaman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:22 am

Florentino wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:13 am
a8=Q is not a bad move it's simply the best move as it immediately ends the game with a win. As long as tablebases and tablebase adjudication is used, there might be shorter ways to a win than mating.

...it immediately ends the game with an adjudication win.

Most of us are used to checkmate being needed to win. The flaw is with the TBs lacking DTM, but also with the engine that's unable to search out a checkmate on its own, one that would take precedence over the TBs.

Are we sure that Nemorino v6 isn't buggy in some ways?
CCRL is showing Nemorino v6 4CPU (after 90 games) being close to 200 Elo(!) below v6 single-core and about equal to v5 on 4CPU.

Nemorino 6.00 64-bit 3334 +16 −16 54.8%
Nemorino 5.00 64-bit 4CPU 3148 +18 −18 48.1%
Nemorino 6.00 64-bit 4CPU 3146 +64 −68 22.8%

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