New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

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duncan
Posts: 12029
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by duncan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:43 am

jdart wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:34 am
I have no complaints about the 3970x. I am getting over 50m nps with my engine. I have seen it hit 100m in the endgame.
<snip>
I am not technical and wonder if you (or anyone else) could explain something for me.

My computer is Ryzen 3 3100, 16 gig ram. On the website below, Ryzen 7 3700X scores 64,369 and Ryzen 3100 scores 11,764

which makes Ryzen 3100, 5 1/2 times slower than Ryzen 7 3700X.

Yet when using Stockfish_20092110_x64_avx2 with nnue and default settings it searches the opening position at about 1.3 million nps which is 38 times slower than 3970x.

Would you know why this is ?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

FEN: rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Stockfish_20092110_x64_avx2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-03744f8d56d8.nnue enabled
1/1 00:00 20 20k +0.26 d2-d4
2/2 00:00 46 46k +0.70 d2-d4 a7-a6
3/3 00:00 152 76k +0.52 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4
4/4 00:00 211 106k +0.90 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 Bf8-b4+ c2-c3
5/6 00:00 706 353k +0.28 e2-e4 c7-c5 c2-c3 d7-d5 e4xd5 Qd8xd5
6/6 00:00 2k 617k +0.13 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 g2-g3 c7-c5 Bf1-g2
7/7 00:00 5k 792k -0.03 e2-e4 c7-c5 Nb1-c3 a7-a6 Ng1-e2 Ng8-f6 g2-g3
8/10 00:00 5k 757k +0.31 e2-e4 c7-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 g2-g3
9/12 00:00 15k 1,060k +0.03 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 b2-b3 d7-d5 e2-e3 c7-c6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
10/11 00:00 18k 1,116k +0.06 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 e2-e3 d7-d5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 b2-b3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-b2
11/15 00:00 33k 1,174k +0.03 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 e2-e3 d7-d5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 c7-c5 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bf1-b5+ Bc8-d7 Bb5xd7+ Nb8xd7 d4xc5
12/21 00:00 55k 1,250k +0.27 e2-e4 e7-e6 g2-g3 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Ng1-f3 Bf8-c5 d2-d4 Bc5-b6 Bf1-g2 Ng8-f6
13/16 00:00 80k 1,292k +0.24 e2-e4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Bf1-b5+ c7-c6 Bb5-d3 Qd8-c7 O-O Bf8-e7 Rf1-e1
14/19 00:00 115k 1,294k +0.20 e2-e4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 d2-d4 Bf8-d6 Bf1-d3 Qd8-e7+ Bc1-e3 Ng8-f6 O-O O-O Nb1-c3 Nb8-c6
15/21 00:00 161k 1,320k +0.33 e2-e4 e7-e5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 d2-d4 e5xd4 Nf3xd4 Bf8-b4 Nd4xc6 b7xc6 Bf1-d3 Bb4xc3+ b2xc3
16/20 00:00 319k 1,322k +0.24 e2-e4 e7-e5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 d2-d4 e5xd4 Nf3xd4 Bf8-b4 Nd4xc6 b7xc6 Qd1-d4 Qd8-e7 Bf1-d3 d7-d5 O-O Nf6xe4
17/25 00:00 745k 1,341k +0.33 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Ng1-f3 Bc8-g4 Bf1-d3 Bf8-e7 O-O Ng8-f6 Rf1-e1 c7-c6 Nb1-d2 O-O c2-c3 Be7-d6 h2-h3
18/23 00:00 990k 1,345k +0.42 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-b4 e4xd5 e6xd5 Bf1-d3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Qd8-e7+ Bc1-e3 Nf6-g4 O-O Ng4xe3 f2xe3 Bb4xc3 b2xc3 Qe7xe3+ Kg1-h1
19/26 00:01 1,529k 1,348k +0.35 e2-e4 c7-c5 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 d2-d4 c5xd4 Nf3xd4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Nb8-c6 Nd4xc6 b7xc6 e4-e5 Nf6-d5 Bf1-d3 Qd8-c7 Nc3xd5 c6xd5 Bc1-f4 Qc7-b6 Qd1-g4 Qb6xb2 O-O
20/31 00:01 2,621k 1,335k +0.22 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Bf8-d6 Bf1-d3 Qf6-e7 Qd1-e2 d5xc4 Bd3xc4 O-O Bc4-d3 Rf8-d8
21/29 00:02 2,874k 1,338k +0.20 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Bf8-e7 Bf1-d3 d5xc4 Bd3xc4 O-O O-O Nb8-d7 e3-e4 Nd7-b6 Bc4-b3 Rf8-d8
22/30 00:02 3,711k 1,337k +0.31 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Bf8-d6 Ra1-c1 Qf6-e7 Bf1-d3 Bd6-c7 O-O O-O e3-e4 d5xe4 Nc3xe4 Nb8-d7
23/28 00:03 4,488k 1,334k +0.32 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Bf8-d6 Ra1-c1 O-O Bf1-d3 Qf6-e7 c4-c5 Bd6-c7 O-O Nb8-d7 e3-e4 d5xe4 Bd3xe4
24/29- 00:03 4,801k 1,336k +0.24 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
24/29 00:04 5,633k 1,331k +0.30 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Nb8-d7 Bf1-d3 Bf8-e7 O-O d5xc4 Bd3xc4 O-O Bc4-b3 Rf8-d8 Nc3-e4 Qf6-g6
25/34- 00:05 7,835k 1,322k +0.22 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
25/34+ 00:07 9,298k 1,319k +0.30 e2-e4
25/34 00:07 9,874k 1,319k +0.27 e2-e4 c7-c5 Ng1-f3 d7-d6 d2-d4 c5xd4 Nf3xd4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 a7-a6 Bc1-e3 e7-e5 Nd4-f3 Bf8-e7 a2-a4 Nb8-c6 Nc3-d5 O-O Be3-b6 Qd8-d7 Bf1-d3 Nf6xd5 e4xd5
26/29- 00:08 11,647k 1,315k +0.19 e2-e4 e7-e6
26/34+ 00:10 13,666k 1,309k +0.27 d2-d4
26/34- 00:11 14,772k 1,308k +0.11 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/34+ 00:12 16,075k 1,303k +0.25 d2-d4
26/34 00:12 16,120k 1,303k +0.23 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 Bc1-g5 c5xd4 Nf3xd4 d5xc4 e2-e3 Bf8-e7 Bf1xc4 Bc8-d7 O-O O-O Qd1-e2 Nb8-c6 Nd4-f3 Nf6-d5 Bg5xe7 Nd5xc3 Be7xd8 Nc3xe2+ Bc4xe2 Rf8xd8
27/32+ 00:14 18,459k 1,296k +0.31 d2-d4
27/35 00:16 20,765k 1,297k +0.33 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Nb8-d7 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5-h4 Bf8-e7 e2-e3 O-O Ra1-c1 a7-a6 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bf1-d3 c7-c6 Bh4-g3 Nf6-h5 O-O Nh5xg3 h2xg3
28/34- 00:17 23,100k 1,296k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
28/34- 00:18 24,627k 1,296k +0.16 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
28/35+ 00:19 25,808k 1,296k +0.25 d2-d4
28/35 00:22 28,688k 1,293k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-b4 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bf1-g2 h7-h6 O-O O-O d4xc5 Bb4xc5 a2-a3 a7-a5 b2-b3 Bc5-b6 e2-e3 Nb8-c6 Bc1-b2 Rf8-e8 Ra1-c1 Bc8-g4
29/35- 00:26 33,749k 1,287k +0.17 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
29/37+ 00:28 36,294k 1,285k +0.25 d2-d4
29/37 00:28 36,504k 1,285k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Nb8-d7 Bf1-d3 d5xc4 Bd3xc4 b7-b5 Bc4-d3 Bc8-b7 a2-a3 a7-a6 b2-b4 a6-a5 Ra1-b1 Nf6-d5 Nc3xd5 e6xd5 O-O a5xb4 a3xb4 Bf8-e7 Bc1-d2
30/38- 00:36 47,345k 1,285k +0.17 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
30/38+ 00:37 48,369k 1,285k +0.25 d2-d4
30/38 00:40 52,471k 1,284k +0.28 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 c6xd5 Nb1-c3 Nb8-c6 Bc1-f4 Qd8-b6 Nc3-a4 Qb6-a5+ Bf4-d2 Qa5-c7 Ra1-c1 e7-e6 b2-b4 Qc7-d8 Na4-c5 a7-a5 b4-b5 Nc6-b4 Qd1-b3 Bf8xc5 d4xc5 O-O
31/37 00:47 60,424k 1,282k +0.24 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 d2-d4 e5xd4 Nf3xd4 Bf8-b4+ c2-c3 Bb4-c5 Nd4xc6 b7xc6 Bf1-d3 Qd8-h4 O-O Ng8-f6 Qd1-f3 O-O Bc1-f4 d7-d6 h2-h3 a7-a5 Nb1-d2 Nf6-h5 Bf4-h2 Qh4-g5 Nd2-c4 a5-a4 Bd3-c2 a4-a3
32/40+ 00:53 68,209k 1,273k +0.32 e2-e4
32/40- 01:00 76,598k 1,267k +0.16 e2-e4 e7-e5
32/40+ 01:01 77,492k 1,267k +0.28 e2-e4
32/45 01:06 84,671k 1,267k +0.26 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 a7-a6 Bb5-a4 Ng8-f6 O-O Bf8-e7 Rf1-e1 b7-b5 Ba4-b3 d7-d6 c2-c3 Bc8-g4 h2-h3 Bg4-h5 d2-d3 O-O g2-g4 Bh5-g6 Nb1-d2 h7-h6 d3-d4 Nf6-d7 d4-d5 Nc6-a5 Bb3-c2
33/40- 01:18 99,512k 1,265k +0.18 e2-e4 e7-e5
33/40- 01:33 118,130k 1,264k +0.10 e2-e4 e7-e5
33/40+ 01:35 121,413k 1,265k +0.18 e2-e4
33/40 01:37 123,945k 1,266k +0.26 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 Bc1-f4 Nd6-e4 c2-c3 d7-d5 Nb1-d2 c7-c6 Bf1-d3 Bc8-f5 h2-h3 h7-h6 Bd3xe4 d5xe4
34/41- 01:43 130,544k 1,267k +0.18 e2-e4 e7-e5
34/41+ 01:56 148,337k 1,269k +0.26 d2-d4
34/41 02:00 153,280k 1,269k +0.21 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Nd6-e8 d4-d5 Ne8-f6 Nb1-c3 d7-d6 Re5-e1 Bc8-g4 Qd1-d3 Nf6-d7 Bc1-f4 Be7-f6 a2-a4 Nd7-e5 Qd3-d2 a7-a6 Bf4-e3 Bg4-f5 a4-a5 Rf8-e8 Be3-d4 Bf5-g6
35/42+ 02:04 158,334k 1,269k +0.29 e2-e4
35/42 02:08 163,807k 1,270k +0.19 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Nd6-e8 d4-d5 Ne8-f6 Nb1-c3 d7-d6 Re5-e1 Bc8-g4 Qd1-d3 Bg4-h5 Bc1-e3 a7-a6 Qd3-d2 Nf6-d7 a2-a4 Be7-f6 h2-h3 Bh5-g6 a4-a5 Rf8-e8 Be3-d4
36/44+ 02:11 167,099k 1,271k +0.27 e2-e4
36/44 02:31 193,036k 1,273k +0.30 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 a7-a6 Bb5-a4 Ng8-f6 O-O Bf8-e7 Rf1-e1 b7-b5 Ba4-b3 d7-d6 c2-c3 O-O h2-h3 Nc6-a5 Bb3-c2 c7-c5 d2-d4 Qd8-c7 d4-d5 Na5-c4 b2-b3 Nc4-b6 a2-a4 c5-c4 b3xc4 b5xa4 Nb1-d2 Bc8-d7 Bc1-a3 Rf8-e8 Bc2-d3 g7-g6 Ba3-b4 a6-a5
37/42- 02:55 223,914k 1,275k +0.22 e2-e4 e7-e5
37/42- 03:09 241,613k 1,275k +0.14 e2-e4 e7-e5
37/42+ 03:48 292,272k 1,277k +0.22 e2-e4
37/46 04:10 319,802k 1,279k +0.32 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-g5 d5xe4 Nc3xe4 Bf8-e7 Ne4xf6+ Be7xf6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c3 O-O Bf1-d3 Bc8-b7 Qd1-c2 h7-h6 Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8 Bh7-e4 Bb7xe4 Qc2xe4 Nb8-d7 Qe4-c6 Qf6-d8 h2-h4 Nd7-f6 Nf3-e5 Kh8-g8 g2-g4 Qd8-d6 g4-g5 Qd6xc6 Ne5xc6
38/47- 04:37 355,638k 1,280k +0.24 e2-e4 e7-e6
38/47+ 05:03 388,286k 1,281k +0.32 e2-e4
38/48 05:28 420,578k 1,280k +0.20 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-g5 d5xe4 Nc3xe4 Bf8-e7 Ne4xf6+ Be7xf6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 Ng1-f3 O-O Qd1-d3 c7-c5 O-O-O Rf8-d8 Qd3-e4 Nb8-c6 Bf1-d3 Qf6-h6+ Qe4-e3 Qh6xe3+ f2xe3 c5xd4 Bd3-e4 d4-d3 Be4xc6 b7xc6 Nf3-e5 Bc8-a6 Ne5xd3 Ba6xd3 Rd1xd3 Rd8xd3 c2xd3 Kg8-f8 Kc1-c2 h7-h6 d3-d4 Ra8-c8 e3-e4
39/51+ 05:49 447,704k 1,282k +0.28 e2-e4
39/54 05:57 458,022k 1,282k +0.28 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-g5 d5xe4 Nc3xe4 Nb8-d7

Dann Corbit
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by Dann Corbit » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Your CPU has 2 chiplets with 2 cores each with an 18 MB cache and costs about $100.
The 3970x has 32 cores as 4 chiples with 8 cores which is only 8 times as many but it has a 128 MB cache (144 MB if you consider L2 and L3) and costs about $2000.

So it is more than the core count, but also the harware cache size.
I would still expect your CPU to perform better than that, so you might examine your configuration
Edit:default bench uses one thread. I guess you need to tell it to use them all.
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duncan
Posts: 12029
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by duncan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:30 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:01 pm
Your CPU has 2 chiplets with 2 cores each with an 18 MB cache and costs about $100.
The 3970x has 32 cores as 4 chiples with 8 cores which is only 8 times as many but it has a 128 MB cache (144 MB if you consider L2 and L3) and costs about $2000.

So it is more than the core count, but also the harware cache size.
I would still expect your CPU to perform better than that, so you might examine your configuration
Edit:default bench uses one thread. I guess you need to tell it to use them all.
I changed the core settings to 8 and I now get 7m nps, which is reasonable for the chip that I have.

Thanks for that.

OneTrickPony
Posts: 136
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by OneTrickPony » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:02 pm

I changed the core settings to 8 and I now get 7m nps, which is reasonable for the chip that I have.
For what it's worth I get around 50M nps from starting position with the newest SF on 3970x so it's a bit bigger difference than passmark benchmarks indicate.

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MikeB
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by MikeB » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:15 pm

OneTrickPony wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:02 pm
I changed the core settings to 8 and I now get 7m nps, which is reasonable for the chip that I have.
For what it's worth I get around 50M nps from starting position with the newest SF on 3970x so it's a bit bigger difference than passmark benchmarks indicate.
Ditto here - very happy with the 3970x.
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Cardoso
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by Cardoso » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm

For those thinking in upgrading to the latest Zen 3. I would suggest waiting another year, for Zen 4.
Zen 4 is planned to use 5nm, this means 1.8x density increase.
There are rumors of another round of core count increase for Ryzen, and also that 5nm yields already surpassed latest TSMC's 7nm. So this 5nm node looks to happen faster and in better shape than 7nm did/had.
Also it looks Zen 4 will happen for desktop AM4 because DDR5 still won't be in much use next year for AMD implement AM5 socket.
So while this Zen 3 looks great, I think Zen 4 will be a much better option for those in need for more cores.
As for BMI2 better performance, remember AMD is a smaller company, with less engineers and less money for R&D, so they wan't to make most users happy, but not necessarily all. This is in high contrast to Intel which has the biggest and most powerful army of engineers of the entire galaxy, maybe even in the local group of galaxies!

syzygy
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by syzygy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:45 pm

Cardoso wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm
For those thinking in upgrading to the latest Zen 3. I would suggest waiting another year, for Zen 4.
Why not wait yet one more year for Zen 5 ;-)

Werewolf
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by Werewolf » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:23 pm

Cardoso wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm
This is in high contrast to Intel which has the biggest and most powerful army of engineers of the entire galaxy, maybe even in the local group of galaxies!
Well it's great they are the greatest in the Galaxy because all they've given us for 5 years is Skylake, Skylake, Skylake, Skylake

:roll:

Wilson
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by Wilson » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:32 pm

syzygy wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:45 pm
Why not wait yet one more year for Zen 5 ;-)
He has a point though: if you need to buy everything (motherboard, ddr4 and cpu) waiting might have sense because next year you could buy:
1) motherboards with a new socket which will support Zen 4, 5, ... while AM4 is EOL with Zen 3
2) new DDR5 memory. When you decide to upgrade your Zen 3 build, the DDR4 will be of no use

syzygy
Posts: 4820
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Re: New AMD Zen 3 and Ryzen processors

Post by syzygy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 pm

Wilson wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:32 pm
syzygy wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:45 pm
Why not wait yet one more year for Zen 5 ;-)
He has a point though: if you need to buy everything (motherboard, ddr4 and cpu) waiting might have sense because next year you could buy:
1) motherboards with a new socket which will support Zen 4, 5, ... while AM4 is EOL with Zen 3
2) new DDR5 memory. When you decide to upgrade your Zen 3 build, the DDR4 will be of no use
So far I've never re-used a motherboard or RAM for a new build. My current desktop is a 6-core i3930K with 64GB DDR3 from 2012. That's what you get when you keep waiting for the next new thing to come out :lol:

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