Geez...I certainly do not miss the constant clone accusations of the past from "authentic" "retired programmers".MikeB wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:07 pmTCEC has been nothing more than a glorified basement tourney for years— not too different than anyone can run. The right way to do it , it to get the "authentic" authors together , decide what the rules and which engines are in . It would not hurt to have some "retired chess programers" in as well to provide some guidance. But the horse has probably already left the barn.AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:36 pmI've sent 12.75 to TCEC for future events (I'm sure they'll remove Ethereal soon via the 'not developed' rule because the leadership dislikes me for fighting for whats right).
I shared 12.75-SFNNUE with them as well. TCEC has two options: Open the field with NNUEs and allow anyone to do it, thus allowing all engines to easily retrofit NNUE and gain similar elo. Or to bar NNUE entries that are not from Stockfish. You can't have it both ways without some hypocricy. Unless of course they want to ban the engines that have trained on Stockfish data.
I've left the TCEC Discord, and asked that they not contact me again. They are hands down the most unprofessional tournament for any game or event I have ever seen. They do not make rules to fit the needs of the competition. They make rules to fit the needs of the engines they want in the competition.
I was planning to obfuscate the Stockfish Network and send that into TCEC, absolutely demolish Leela and Allie, which would cause the directors to take some steps. I don't think I care enough to do it. I don't need to prove the shameless favoring of Leela and Allie -- its apparent to everyone.
I hope TCEC crashes and burns and something better replaces it. CCC has the same issues with a dozen forks of the same program, some programs using Stockfish Networks some not. BUT, CCC does not claim to be this great bastion of competitive play, the highest quality tournament in the land. They are just a venue that plays games, so thats alright.
No wonder major innovations come from other game programers: Go brought us MCTSs+NNs, even our brothers from shogi usurped us with NNUE when I thought that optimization is the forte of chess programmers. What we need is less of the cut-throat competition and clone accusations, and more of creating an atmosphere that encourages innovations.
No freaking ICGA like committee please.