Unfair Poll

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Madeleine Birchfield
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:29 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Full name: Madeleine Birchfield

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:26 pm

Damir wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Lets make a pool how many want to get rid off CCC. The pool should be striclty made in CTF forum, where only CTF contributors can vote... :) :)
The two forums shouldn't be hosted together on talkchess, the CTF should be broken off to a separate website, perhaps something like chessthinkersforum.com.

Milos
Posts: 3986
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:47 am

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Milos » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:36 pm

Madeleine Birchfield wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:26 pm
Damir wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Lets make a pool how many want to get rid off CCC. The pool should be striclty made in CTF forum, where only CTF contributors can vote... :) :)
The two forums shouldn't be hosted together on talkchess, the CTF should be broken off to a separate website, perhaps something like chessthinkersforum.com.
I really wonder what is your motivation? You never really posted in CTF (beside those 2 posts from yesterday), you are a very recent member of CCC, I doubt you read much if any on CTF. So how is CTF affecting you?

Ras
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:19 pm
Full name: Rasmus Althoff
Contact:

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Ras » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:53 pm

chrisw wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:21 pm
you'll surely get "found" as would any others missing, and be on the list.
I don't care whether I myself am on the list or not, that's not my point. The point is that going by such a list is an ad-hoc charta change that hasn't been agreed upon.

And yeah, I did participate in some discussions, but both leftists and the rightists are quick to turn any thread into a pointless and unthinking (mocking the T in CTF) "nazi! commie!" mess of mutual vitriol that is a shame for TC and therefore impacts everyone also on CCC through its sheer existence. Since both sides totally don't get that they themselves are also part of the problem, not just the "other" side, it's beyond redemption.

HGM is also right in pointing out that the "neutral" team won't solve anything because the proposal isn't heavy-handed, and the other two teams are among those who don't get that they're part of the problem. That's why they wouldn't improve CTF, but only make it a dumpster of their liking - which would still be a shame for TC.

Breaking it out to a separate website seems like a good idea, which also would allow any charter on the new website, but that would require those most in favour of CTF to take action themselves. However, both sides are primarily interested in just shutting the other side down. Getting the current CTF going on another website would require them to keep their dissent, but cooperate in mutual respect - which is the very thing they are unable to.
Rasmus Althoff
https://www.ct800.net

Madeleine Birchfield
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:29 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Full name: Madeleine Birchfield

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:09 pm

Ras wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:53 pm
I don't care whether I myself am on the list or not, that's not my point. The point is that going by such a list is an ad-hoc charta change that hasn't been agreed upon.

And yeah, I did participate in some discussions, but both leftists and the rightists are quick to turn any thread into a pointless and unthinking (mocking the T in CTF) "nazi! commie!" mess of mutual vitriol that is a shame for TC and therefore impacts everyone also on CCC through its sheer existence. Since both sides totally don't get that they themselves are also part of the problem, not just the "other" side, it's beyond redemption.

HGM is also right in pointing out that the "neutral" team won't solve anything because the proposal isn't heavy-handed, and the other two teams are among those who don't get that they're part of the problem. That's why they wouldn't improve CTF, but only make it a dumpster of their liking - which would still be a shame for TC.

Breaking it out to a separate website seems like a good idea, which also would allow any charter on the new website, but that would require those most in favour of CTF to take action themselves. However, both sides are primarily interested in just shutting the other side down. Getting the current CTF going on another website would require them to keep their dissent, but cooperate in mutual respect - which is the very thing they are unable to.
Breaking it out to a separate website would also allow both sides to create their own CTF website where they could each create their own charter and talk in their safe space without the childish temper tantrums between the two sides. Everybody is satisfied.

Ras
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:19 pm
Full name: Rasmus Althoff
Contact:

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Ras » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:12 pm

Madeleine Birchfield wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:09 pm
Breaking it out to a separate website would also allow both sides to create their own CTF website
Like CTFL and CTFR. Both would die down within a few months at most because the friction would be missing.
Rasmus Althoff
https://www.ct800.net

Milos
Posts: 3986
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:47 am

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Milos » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:25 pm

etihan92 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:13 pm
As someone who is visiting CTF for more than 6 months now, I see less and less activity there. Maybe the best option would be to close it.
Here is another fake account "voting" in CTF survey.
Being a member for 20 days, he is reading members only visible CTF for 6 months. :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is becoming really ridiculous.

chrisw
Posts: 3851
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by chrisw » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:32 pm

Ras wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:53 pm
chrisw wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:21 pm
you'll surely get "found" as would any others missing, and be on the list.
I don't care whether I myself am on the list or not, that's not my point. The point is that going by such a list is an ad-hoc charta change that hasn't been agreed upon.

And yeah, I did participate in some discussions, but both leftists and the rightists are quick to turn any thread into a pointless and unthinking (mocking the T in CTF) "nazi! commie!" mess of mutual vitriol that is a shame for TC and therefore impacts everyone also on CCC through its sheer existence. Since both sides totally don't get that they themselves are also part of the problem, not just the "other" side, it's beyond redemption.

Well, I took a look at the last two postings for you in CTF, dated June 4 and 11, after that you didn't post again.
One of them you replied to an OP, you were the only reply to that thread, and nobody replied to you. That experience certainly didn't end in commie! nazi! thing. Quite harmless pair of posts. All the rest of CTF ignored it.

The other, you chose to enter a thread on "Minneapolis Violence/ Police Brutality" and was arguing (you) from a relative "right" perspective, I didn't notice any commie! nazi! stuff and given the time of the events and the topic, although highly controversial, I didn't see anyone lose their head or make any personal insults. You made your final post, it didn't look like a 'final' post in any "final" sense in the thread and you presumably went back to the other forums. I guess maybe you are 'right' and you disprove of 'communists', you made your points, and that's kind of what CTF is for. I did not see any reason at all around you or the posts in the thread for you to be making the above comments (nazi commie reduction). Seriously.
Is it that you just don't like to see certain politics being expressed?

HGM is also right in pointing out that the "neutral" team won't solve anything because the proposal isn't heavy-handed, and the other two teams are among those who don't get that they're part of the problem. That's why they wouldn't improve CTF, but only make it a dumpster of their liking - which would still be a shame for TC.
As yet there is no (long overdue) election announced, possibly one or two candidates, possible some others have suggested themselves, and no actual teams, all that awaits an election being actually called. We can't predict how that will pan out. Nothing stops you from being a candidate btw.

Breaking it out to a separate website seems like a good idea, which also would allow any charter on the new website, but that would require those most in favour of CTF to take action themselves. However, both sides are primarily interested in just shutting the other side down. Getting the current CTF going on another website would require them to keep their dissent, but cooperate in mutual respect - which is the very thing they are unable to.

Peter Berger
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Peter Berger » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:14 pm

hgm wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:46 am
In fact one of the moderator teams that intends to run in the upcoming elections proposes to continuate exactly the same "liberal front" policy of the previous team, where basically "anything short of calling for genocide" would be considered acceptable.
Breaking news: the LIBERAL FRONT has been disbanded and won't run in a potential(?!) upcoming election.
Its numerous members decided to engage in self-criticsm ( as suggested by chrisw) and will do other things in their spare time.

Volker Pittlik
Posts: 604
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Murten / Morat, Switzerland

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by Volker Pittlik » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:20 pm

Peter Berger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:14 pm
... Its numerous members decided to engage in self-criticsm ...

:D :D :D

A good one!

corres
Posts: 3657
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: Unfair Poll

Post by corres » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:57 pm

hgm wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:50 am
...
Why is it so all-important for the CTF dwellers to force their presence on a chess community that clearly has no interest in them? If I am not welcome in a place where I have no business to conduct, I just leave.
You can not imagine that there are members who interested in not only chess, but politics also?
The ask was rhetorical, because I know well, you are interested in politics too.
For you, Williamson, mclane, chrisw, Daniel and some others the main problem is, the discussions on CTF is not directed by you, libertarians, communists, anarchist, BLM activists and in general the believer of political correctness, but thanking to the "liberal" - but not libertarian - moderators the polemic flowed on its natural course. The personal conflicts among us is never was so serious that we can not arrange without moderation, moreover we all are defended against far left and far right ideologies so we no need any outer defense from you.
Who is not interested in political discussions, stay away from CTF.
That is all.

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