Unbalanced Human Openings released

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pohl4711
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by pohl4711 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am

I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!

maxdeg
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by maxdeg » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:39 pm

pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!

:D :D

Been working on something similar which I've now abandoned !
Many thanks Stefan - saved me a lot of time.

Stay safe .. :D

+3

pohl4711
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by pohl4711 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:48 pm

maxdeg wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Been working on something similar which I've now abandoned !
Many thanks Stefan - saved me a lot of time.

Stay safe .. :D
Yes, creating such opening-sets is always a lot of work (and several months PC-time, too).

BrendanJNorman
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:42 pm

pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
I feel that there are different types of computer chess nuts.

-Some are computer nuts who use chess engines to test their hardware.

- Some are chess nuts who use their hardware to see how human-like, or strongly, or beautifully the engine plays.

- Some like to actually play against the engines. Guys like Fern, Ruxy, Me and others fit into this camp

- And of course, we all have bits of each group in us.

This opening set is perfect for me and really useful. THANK YOU for the hard work.

I also appreciate you leaving the player names in the files too. Very cool to be able to check positions and think "Hmm, so Kasparov liked this for white, huh?"

I hope others check this file out as well. Really a treasure...and I don't use such words much.

lkaufman
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by lkaufman » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:06 pm

pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
I like this very much, congrats! I've used my own version of this idea for quick tests for a while now, but only with a small number of openings. I'm a bit surprised that your score range is so high (0.80 to 0.89 Komodo eval), as I've generally figured that the win/draw line was around 0.70, but your results show about 50% draws so it must be about right. Perhaps the explanation is that since these are openings played by strong human players they are probably not as bad for Black on average as the evals say.
Komodo rules!

pohl4711
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by pohl4711 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:24 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:06 pm

I like this very much, congrats! I've used my own version of this idea for quick tests for a while now, but only with a small number of openings. I'm a bit surprised that your score range is so high (0.80 to 0.89 Komodo eval), as I've generally figured that the win/draw line was around 0.70, but your results show about 50% draws so it must be about right. Perhaps the explanation is that since these are openings played by strong human players they are probably not as bad for Black on average as the evals say.
Thanx. I made 1500 games testruns (RoundRobins of SF 8,9,10,11) with Komodo evals of 0.50-0.59, 0.60-0.69, 0.70-0.79,...., 1.10-1.19 and the interval 0.80-0.89 gave the widest Elo spreading. So it was the best choice.

pohl4711
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by pohl4711 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:32 pm

BrendanJNorman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:42 pm

This opening set is perfect for me and really useful. THANK YOU for the hard work.

I also appreciate you leaving the player names in the files too. Very cool to be able to check positions and think "Hmm, so Kasparov liked this for white, huh?"

I hope others check this file out as well. Really a treasure...and I don't use such words much.
Thank you, always good to hear, the hard work is appreciated.
And mention, that I put the raw-data in the download, too. All lines (4, 6 and 8 moves) within an eval-interval of -1.99 to +1.99 are in there. All sorted by Elo of players, no double endpositions. So, it is very easy to filter out own openings-sets of interest. Perhaps a set, which is better for Black? No problem. Just search for "val=-08" in Annotations in Chessbase/Fritz and find all lines with eval of -0.89 to -0.80. Pretty easy. Endless possibilities!

All evals are reformatted to 3 digits and +/-. So eval of +0.05 is +005. Eval of -0.64 is -064. Very easy to search for, using Chessbase/Fritz.

Searching "val=+05" finds all lines with eval +0.50;+0.59 for example.
Searching "val=-1" finds all lines with eval -1.00;-1.99 for example.

jefk
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Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by jefk » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 pm

not a small download (but several formats so it's ok)
checked a recent game i played
and my move 2...d5!? is not in your book anymore
Lol
here's my game (below), yours truly was Black

[pgn]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2020.10.30"]
[Round "-"]
[White "maxcommandos"]
[Black "jefk"]
[Timezone "UTC"]
[ECO "B21"]
[UTCDate "2020.10.30"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
1. e4 c5 2. d4 d5 3. dxc5 e5 4. exd5 4... Bxc5
5.Nf3 e4 6. Ne5 6... Qf6 7. Bb5+ Kf8
8. Ng4 8... Bxg4 9. Qxg4 Qxf2+ 10. Kd1
[/pgn]

Now i should have played 10...Na6!, and simply win the game;
but i was a bit lazy, and overlooked some moves; anyway ,
that can happen :)

Now gonna to check compare my White (antipatzer/quickwin) 'repertoire'
with the 'unbalanced human (??( book' ...

First of all, after these moves (played in GUI to be sure)

[White "jefk, Jkec"]
[Black "Stockfish 130820-AUG2020"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
{2456MB, Unbalanced_8mvs.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nc3 {2} Nf6 {0} 3. Bc4 {2}
Nc6 {0} 4. f4 !!!

Now Black is out of book, best move is Nxe4 (Bronstein gambit)
but most patzers play exf4? (and then i simply win ofcourse).
Anyway, if i don't play against a patzer, i may choose 4.d3,
then after ...Bc5 ofcourse 5.f4! , which *is* in the book,
but then a good response 5...0-0 is not in your book anymore.
Although 5...d6 also is ok, ofcourse.
For the rest the book looks ok, but a bit narrow;
it sure may be unbalanced openings, but i'm not sure if
it are openings for unbalanced humans ... (#Q)**!(@*#^???)
:-)
(*) lot of items you can put on to do lists nowadays
reminds me clips such as this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o_PO3ridY
(replace Denver by The Hague or so maybe)
Toodeloo... :)
jefk

pohl4711
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by pohl4711 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 am

jefk wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 pm
not a small download (but several formats so it's ok)
checked a recent game i played
and my move 2...d5!? is not in your book anymore
Lol
here's my game (below), yours truly was Black



Now i should have played 10...Na6!, and simply win the game;
but i was a bit lazy, and overlooked some moves; anyway ,
that can happen :)

Now gonna to check compare my White (antipatzer/quickwin) 'repertoire'
with the 'unbalanced human (??( book' ...

First of all, after these moves (played in GUI to be sure)

[White "jefk, Jkec"]
[Black "Stockfish 130820-AUG2020"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
{2456MB, Unbalanced_8mvs.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nc3 {2} Nf6 {0} 3. Bc4 {2}
Nc6 {0} 4. f4 !!!

Now Black is out of book, best move is Nxe4 (Bronstein gambit)
but most patzers play exf4? (and then i simply win ofcourse).
Anyway, if i don't play against a patzer, i may choose 4.d3,
then after ...Bc5 ofcourse 5.f4! , which *is* in the book,
but then a good response 5...0-0 is not in your book anymore.
Although 5...d6 also is ok, ofcourse.
For the rest the book looks ok, but a bit narrow;
it sure may be unbalanced openings, but i'm not sure if
it are openings for unbalanced humans ... (#Q)**!(@*#^???)
:-)
(*) lot of items you can put on to do lists nowadays
reminds me clips such as this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o_PO3ridY
(replace Denver by The Hague or so maybe)
Toodeloo... :)
The Unbalaced Human Openings contain human moves, only. But I made them for computerchess: Engine tests and tournaments. They are definitly not made for using them on human played games. I am sorry, if there was a misunderstanding.

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Laskos
Posts: 10938
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Post by Laskos » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:09 am

pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
Thanks, good work, very useful. I myself use for ages 2-3 move unbalanced openings (sometimes human ones), picked by the classical SF eval to be in 0.80-0.99 range. I think that Larry's estimate of 0.70 for Komodo borderline position is a bit too low, and yours 0.80 looks like better suited, at least using human games. I guess it was a pain to measure the Elo spread SF11 vs SF8 with different White advantages, needs a lot of work. Thanks again, I will surely use your human unbalanced openings, they are the way to go in the future for match experiments in CC. They have been rigorously shown (as far as the Elo model and draw models like Rao-Kupper and Davidson allow) to be optimal in separation power defined by t-value (here Elo spread over Error) and Normalized Elo

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