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Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
by pohl4711
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:39 pm
by maxdeg
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!

:D :D

Been working on something similar which I've now abandoned !
Many thanks Stefan - saved me a lot of time.

Stay safe .. :D

+3

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:48 pm
by pohl4711
maxdeg wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Been working on something similar which I've now abandoned !
Many thanks Stefan - saved me a lot of time.

Stay safe .. :D
Yes, creating such opening-sets is always a lot of work (and several months PC-time, too).

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:42 pm
by BrendanJNorman
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
I feel that there are different types of computer chess nuts.

-Some are computer nuts who use chess engines to test their hardware.

- Some are chess nuts who use their hardware to see how human-like, or strongly, or beautifully the engine plays.

- Some like to actually play against the engines. Guys like Fern, Ruxy, Me and others fit into this camp

- And of course, we all have bits of each group in us.

This opening set is perfect for me and really useful. THANK YOU for the hard work.

I also appreciate you leaving the player names in the files too. Very cool to be able to check positions and think "Hmm, so Kasparov liked this for white, huh?"

I hope others check this file out as well. Really a treasure...and I don't use such words much.

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:06 pm
by lkaufman
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
I like this very much, congrats! I've used my own version of this idea for quick tests for a while now, but only with a small number of openings. I'm a bit surprised that your score range is so high (0.80 to 0.89 Komodo eval), as I've generally figured that the win/draw line was around 0.70, but your results show about 50% draws so it must be about right. Perhaps the explanation is that since these are openings played by strong human players they are probably not as bad for Black on average as the evals say.

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:24 pm
by pohl4711
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:06 pm

I like this very much, congrats! I've used my own version of this idea for quick tests for a while now, but only with a small number of openings. I'm a bit surprised that your score range is so high (0.80 to 0.89 Komodo eval), as I've generally figured that the win/draw line was around 0.70, but your results show about 50% draws so it must be about right. Perhaps the explanation is that since these are openings played by strong human players they are probably not as bad for Black on average as the evals say.
Thanx. I made 1500 games testruns (RoundRobins of SF 8,9,10,11) with Komodo evals of 0.50-0.59, 0.60-0.69, 0.70-0.79,...., 1.10-1.19 and the interval 0.80-0.89 gave the widest Elo spreading. So it was the best choice.

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:32 pm
by pohl4711
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:42 pm

This opening set is perfect for me and really useful. THANK YOU for the hard work.

I also appreciate you leaving the player names in the files too. Very cool to be able to check positions and think "Hmm, so Kasparov liked this for white, huh?"

I hope others check this file out as well. Really a treasure...and I don't use such words much.
Thank you, always good to hear, the hard work is appreciated.
And mention, that I put the raw-data in the download, too. All lines (4, 6 and 8 moves) within an eval-interval of -1.99 to +1.99 are in there. All sorted by Elo of players, no double endpositions. So, it is very easy to filter out own openings-sets of interest. Perhaps a set, which is better for Black? No problem. Just search for "val=-08" in Annotations in Chessbase/Fritz and find all lines with eval of -0.89 to -0.80. Pretty easy. Endless possibilities!

All evals are reformatted to 3 digits and +/-. So eval of +0.05 is +005. Eval of -0.64 is -064. Very easy to search for, using Chessbase/Fritz.

Searching "val=+05" finds all lines with eval +0.50;+0.59 for example.
Searching "val=-1" finds all lines with eval -1.00;-1.99 for example.

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 pm
by jefk
not a small download (but several formats so it's ok)
checked a recent game i played
and my move 2...d5!? is not in your book anymore
Lol
here's my game (below), yours truly was Black

[pgn]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2020.10.30"]
[Round "-"]
[White "maxcommandos"]
[Black "jefk"]
[Timezone "UTC"]
[ECO "B21"]
[UTCDate "2020.10.30"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
1. e4 c5 2. d4 d5 3. dxc5 e5 4. exd5 4... Bxc5
5.Nf3 e4 6. Ne5 6... Qf6 7. Bb5+ Kf8
8. Ng4 8... Bxg4 9. Qxg4 Qxf2+ 10. Kd1
[/pgn]

Now i should have played 10...Na6!, and simply win the game;
but i was a bit lazy, and overlooked some moves; anyway ,
that can happen :)

Now gonna to check compare my White (antipatzer/quickwin) 'repertoire'
with the 'unbalanced human (??( book' ...

First of all, after these moves (played in GUI to be sure)

[White "jefk, Jkec"]
[Black "Stockfish 130820-AUG2020"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
{2456MB, Unbalanced_8mvs.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nc3 {2} Nf6 {0} 3. Bc4 {2}
Nc6 {0} 4. f4 !!!

Now Black is out of book, best move is Nxe4 (Bronstein gambit)
but most patzers play exf4? (and then i simply win ofcourse).
Anyway, if i don't play against a patzer, i may choose 4.d3,
then after ...Bc5 ofcourse 5.f4! , which *is* in the book,
but then a good response 5...0-0 is not in your book anymore.
Although 5...d6 also is ok, ofcourse.
For the rest the book looks ok, but a bit narrow;
it sure may be unbalanced openings, but i'm not sure if
it are openings for unbalanced humans ... (#Q)**!(@*#^???)
:-)
(*) lot of items you can put on to do lists nowadays
reminds me clips such as this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o_PO3ridY
(replace Denver by The Hague or so maybe)
Toodeloo... :)

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 am
by pohl4711
jefk wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 pm
not a small download (but several formats so it's ok)
checked a recent game i played
and my move 2...d5!? is not in your book anymore
Lol
here's my game (below), yours truly was Black



Now i should have played 10...Na6!, and simply win the game;
but i was a bit lazy, and overlooked some moves; anyway ,
that can happen :)

Now gonna to check compare my White (antipatzer/quickwin) 'repertoire'
with the 'unbalanced human (??( book' ...

First of all, after these moves (played in GUI to be sure)

[White "jefk, Jkec"]
[Black "Stockfish 130820-AUG2020"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
{2456MB, Unbalanced_8mvs.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nc3 {2} Nf6 {0} 3. Bc4 {2}
Nc6 {0} 4. f4 !!!

Now Black is out of book, best move is Nxe4 (Bronstein gambit)
but most patzers play exf4? (and then i simply win ofcourse).
Anyway, if i don't play against a patzer, i may choose 4.d3,
then after ...Bc5 ofcourse 5.f4! , which *is* in the book,
but then a good response 5...0-0 is not in your book anymore.
Although 5...d6 also is ok, ofcourse.
For the rest the book looks ok, but a bit narrow;
it sure may be unbalanced openings, but i'm not sure if
it are openings for unbalanced humans ... (#Q)**!(@*#^???)
:-)
(*) lot of items you can put on to do lists nowadays
reminds me clips such as this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o_PO3ridY
(replace Denver by The Hague or so maybe)
Toodeloo... :)
The Unbalaced Human Openings contain human moves, only. But I made them for computerchess: Engine tests and tournaments. They are definitly not made for using them on human played games. I am sorry, if there was a misunderstanding.

Re: Unbalanced Human Openings released

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:09 am
by Laskos
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am
I released my Unbalanced Human Openings.

Unbalanced Human Openings contain:

- 100% moves played by humans, only. Both players had at least 2300 Elo. Out of the Megabase 2020
- no manually constructed openings (like my Drawkiller openings)
- no manually added moves to make castling impossible (like my NBSC openings)
- no selection of piece-patterns (like my SALC openings (white and black castle to opposite sides of the board))
- no double endpositions
- all endpositions analyzed by Komodo and filtered by that Komodo eval-value.

Learn more on my website:
https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Direct download:
https://www.sp-cc.de/files/unbalanced_h ... s_v1.0.zip

Enjoy!
Thanks, good work, very useful. I myself use for ages 2-3 move unbalanced openings (sometimes human ones), picked by the classical SF eval to be in 0.80-0.99 range. I think that Larry's estimate of 0.70 for Komodo borderline position is a bit too low, and yours 0.80 looks like better suited, at least using human games. I guess it was a pain to measure the Elo spread SF11 vs SF8 with different White advantages, needs a lot of work. Thanks again, I will surely use your human unbalanced openings, they are the way to go in the future for match experiments in CC. They have been rigorously shown (as far as the Elo model and draw models like Rao-Kupper and Davidson allow) to be optimal in separation power defined by t-value (here Elo spread over Error) and Normalized Elo