Dragon versus Nakamura

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Vinvin
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by Vinvin » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:29 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:46 am
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:50 am
Alayan wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:45 am
Milos wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:43 am
Alayan wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:39 am
Nakamura's position still drawn but it looks like he will blunder and lose the 4th game, leading to 2.5-1.5 for Dragon.
It's 100% lost
When I posted it was drawn. :wink:

In this last game, Dragon succeeded in keeping the position complex and messy very long, and Hikaru's king in the center made it much harder for him to find the right moves.

Was it regular Dragon or the MCTS version playing tonight ?
It was regular Dragon. But I think we'll go with MCTS Dragon tomorrow, mainly for variety. MCTS Dragon does worse than normal Dragon giving handicaps to other engines (maybe not Lc0, that's worth testing), but it did better against my son and the regular Komodo MCTS did much better than regular Komodo giving handicaps to GM Alex Lenderman. Perhaps simulation won't predict well in this case.
What was the final score today?
3 draws and 1 win for Dragon.

Cornfed
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by Cornfed » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Curious of course...how much is Naka getting paid to play the match?

EroSennin
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by EroSennin » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:40 pm

Cornfed wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:49 pm
Curious of course...how much is Naka getting paid to play the match?
"Nakamura will win $250 per victory over Dragon and $100 per draw."
So peanuts compared to what Jorden got for his win

Chessqueen
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 pm
Based on what I saw in the endgame dragon gave an easy draw to Nakamura.

I do not think it had to go to tablebases positions with a pawn down and
there are better practical chances if not all the draws are evaluated the same.
I do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon has to use tablebases against a Human GM, it is more fair for Komodo Dragon NOT to use a 7 men tablebases
only a 5 men since Nakamura does NOT have access to 7 men tablebases in his brain, the most that a human GM or super GM can retain based on knowledge is probably a 5 men endgames at the most.

mjlef
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by mjlef » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 pm
Based on what I saw in the endgame dragon gave an easy draw to Nakamura.

I do not think it had to go to tablebases positions with a pawn down and
there are better practical chances if not all the draws are evaluated the same.
I do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon has to use tablebases against a Human GM, it is more fair for Komodo Dragon NOT to use a 7 men tablebases
only a 5 men since Nakamura does NOT have access to 7 men tablebases in his brain, the most that a human GM or super GM can retain based on knowledge is probably a 5 men endgames at the most.
First, we are using only 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases. We just cannot afford enough fast storage to use 7 piece right now.
Second, Nakamura is an endgame expert and has done a great job to stearing most games to a drawn endgame.

Mark

Chessqueen
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:46 pm

mjlef wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 pm
Based on what I saw in the endgame dragon gave an easy draw to Nakamura.

I do not think it had to go to tablebases positions with a pawn down and
there are better practical chances if not all the draws are evaluated the same.
I do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon has to use tablebases against a Human GM, it is more fair for Komodo Dragon NOT to use a 7 men tablebases
only a 5 men since Nakamura does NOT have access to 7 men tablebases in his brain, the most that a human GM or super GM can retain based on knowledge is probably a 5 men endgames at the most.
First, we are using only 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases. We just cannot afford enough fast storage to use 7 piece right now.
Second, Nakamura is an endgame expert and has done a great job to stearing most games to a drawn endgame.

Mark
Even 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases if Nakamura is considered an endgame expert he would NOT know how to win most 6 men endgames where Komodo use a 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases which makes it a little bit unfair unless you can show me several games where Naka has master a 6 piece endgame perfectly.

lkaufman
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by lkaufman » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:07 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:46 pm
mjlef wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 pm
Based on what I saw in the endgame dragon gave an easy draw to Nakamura.

I do not think it had to go to tablebases positions with a pawn down and
there are better practical chances if not all the draws are evaluated the same.
I do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon has to use tablebases against a Human GM, it is more fair for Komodo Dragon NOT to use a 7 men tablebases
only a 5 men since Nakamura does NOT have access to 7 men tablebases in his brain, the most that a human GM or super GM can retain based on knowledge is probably a 5 men endgames at the most.
First, we are using only 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases. We just cannot afford enough fast storage to use 7 piece right now.
Second, Nakamura is an endgame expert and has done a great job to stearing most games to a drawn endgame.

Mark
Even 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases if Nakamura is considered an endgame expert he would NOT know how to win most 6 men endgames where Komodo use a 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases which makes it a little bit unfair unless you can show me several games where Naka has master a 6 piece endgame perfectly.
We might actually do better NOT to use TBs in this sort of match. Given that we are counting on mistakes by the human to offset the handicap, it doesn't make much sense to assume perfect endgame play by him.
Komodo rules!

Chessqueen
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Full name: Nancy M Pichardo

Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:24 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:07 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:46 pm
mjlef wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:51 pm
Based on what I saw in the endgame dragon gave an easy draw to Nakamura.

I do not think it had to go to tablebases positions with a pawn down and
there are better practical chances if not all the draws are evaluated the same.
I do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon has to use tablebases against a Human GM, it is more fair for Komodo Dragon NOT to use a 7 men tablebases
only a 5 men since Nakamura does NOT have access to 7 men tablebases in his brain, the most that a human GM or super GM can retain based on knowledge is probably a 5 men endgames at the most.
First, we are using only 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases. We just cannot afford enough fast storage to use 7 piece right now.
Second, Nakamura is an endgame expert and has done a great job to stearing most games to a drawn endgame.

Mark
Even 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases if Nakamura is considered an endgame expert he would NOT know how to win most 6 men endgames where Komodo use a 6 piece Syzygy Tablebases which makes it a little bit unfair unless you can show me several games where Naka has master a 6 piece endgame perfectly.
We might actually do better NOT to use TBs in this sort of match. Given that we are counting on mistakes by the human to offset the handicap, it doesn't make much sense to assume perfect endgame play by him.
Nakamura is Playing versus Fat Fritz he will be exhausted or tired by the time he play versus Komodo Dragon LIVE https://www.twitch.tv/gmhikaru

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AdminX
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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by AdminX » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:32 pm

"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers

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Re: Dragon versus Nakamura

Post by AdminX » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:04 pm

"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers

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