A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

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AdminX
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A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by AdminX » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:59 am

A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense played on LiChess. In this game we had an early exchange of queens out of the opening. On move 13 Leela Gambits away it's b-pawn for some active piece play and long term positional pressure. The time control for this game was 5'3 blitz.

Bot NeuralAbyss: LC0 J96-44
Bot ChessHyperbot: Stockfish 12

"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Damir
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by Damir » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm

Latest Stockfish devs are much stronger than Stockfish 12.... :o

Cornfed
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by Cornfed » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:52 pm

Are these not a dime a dozen?
I mean, a real win would be from the BLACK side of the Benoni.

carldaman
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by carldaman » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:58 am

The following diagram comes from a game where Black does win convincingly from the Black side of a Benoni, against a worthy opponent (let's say stronger than the current human World Champ).

[d]1r1qn1k1/1r1n1p1p/p2p2p1/2pP2P1/3bP3/2N5/RPQBBP1P/5RK1 b - - 0 22

Try to figure out the best move without engine assistance, then you'll appreciate the game below even better. :)



Cornfed
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by Cornfed » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:47 pm

carldaman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:58 am
The following diagram comes from a game where Black does win convincingly from the Black side of a Benoni, against a worthy opponent (let's say stronger than the current human World Champ).

[d]1r1qn1k1/1r1n1p1p/p2p2p1/2pP2P1/3bP3/2N5/RPQBBP1P/5RK1 b - - 0 22

Try to figure out the best move without engine assistance, then you'll appreciate the game below even better. :)


But if SF or even Lela won with Back against the other...THAT would be of note. We never see those...because it's strategically a dubious opening. T

carldaman
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by carldaman » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:14 am

Cornfed wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:47 pm
But if SF or even Lela won with Back against the other...THAT would be of note. We never see those...because it's strategically a dubious opening. T
Right, I myself don't play the Benoni for that same reason, but it still appeals to certain human players who like murky positions that are ripe for counter-attacks. Since people still make mistakes, that gives the Benoni players potential practical chances, especially when needing a 'must' win with Black.

This game can serve as an illustration of Black's hidden potential, *IF* White mishandles the opening. Yes, I know, White wasn't a human, but another engine, a tough opponent, nonetheless - even surpassing the strongest humans in strength.

PS. Games between two top engines that hardly ever go wrong don't really appeal to me.

Cornfed
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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by Cornfed » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:27 pm

carldaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:14 am
Cornfed wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:47 pm
But if SF or even Lela won with Back against the other...THAT would be of note. We never see those...because it's strategically a dubious opening. T
Right, I myself don't play the Benoni for that same reason, but it still appeals to certain human players who like murky positions that are ripe for counter-attacks. Since people still make mistakes, that gives the Benoni players potential practical chances, especially when needing a 'must' win with Black.

This game can serve as an illustration of Black's hidden potential, *IF* White mishandles the opening. Yes, I know, White wasn't a human, but another engine, a tough opponent, nonetheless - even surpassing the strongest humans in strength.

PS. Games between two top engines that hardly ever go wrong don't really appeal to me.
One problem is that...one can't order up 'murky' on demand if White is half-way sensible.

The Benoni was the only thing in my playbook at one time. A few years back, I had black in the last round of the State Championship, needing only a draw (due to tie-breaks) against a 2350 I had beaten in a recent tourney (with a Benoni...) and he was ready this time. It wasn't pretty...when the slightest thing 'goes wrong' in the Benoni, it is likely to not end pretty for Black.

I ran a bunch of my older games thru an older Komodo recently and was particularly depressed by that game... :cry:

"Son of Sorrow" I think was the sub-title or somesuch of a Book on the Benoni at one time...rightly so. Even Tal had to give it up and that was 'pre-computer'.

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Re: A nice Leela win over Stockfish 12 in the Benoni Defense

Post by carldaman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:47 am

Yeah, 'Son of Sorrow' is about right. I remember a friend of mine of master strength was a regular Benoni fanatic, but had his hands full with it whenever facing stronger opposition. It still has its fans among masters, though.

I still believe it could work as a surprise weapon, and maybe just in must-win situations. The 2350 types can't know you're a habitual Benoni customer, or you'll be toast. You'll also have to feel like you know and understand it better than those opponents before deploying it.

I hope a game like the one I posted can alleviate some of the Benoni sorrow and reinject some confidence into adopting it, at least for a while. :mrgreen:

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