How many NN Engines are there ?
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
No one mentions the terror of the TCEC QL: a0lite!
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
The unspoken assumption in this thread is that engines have to have alpha-beta search. I personally would add a0lite and Leela to Sylwy's list as while they do not have alpha-beta search, they do work on the CPU alone and so are comparable. Scorpio also recently implemented NNUE so it should be on the list as well.
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
Sure I can do this easily. I have Dragon, Lc0, Stockfish on my system.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:59 pmCan somebody here run a tournament of all the NN and NNUE engines Besides SF NNUE, Komodo Dragon, and Lela, which are obviously the strongest one. and post it here or create a Link on Youtube.com ?
Just add the engines you want, and a link to the engines for me to add them. And I will run your tournament.
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
The only one that I do NOT see here on this list is aOlite and Tornado NNUE, but this list should be sufficient to start for the first time to have an Only NNUE separate ratings just like Graham have a separate rating for standard ab and FRC, and you could be the person running this NNUE matches here and whenever somebody add NNUE to their engine you can include them on your NNUE rating list. I strongly believe that Defense and Vajolet chess would greatly benefit from adding NNUE. I see that Nemorino NNUE has become extremely strong after adding NNUE take a look here https://tcec-chess.com/live.htmlmwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:07 amSure I can do this easily. I have Dragon, Lc0, Stockfish on my system.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:59 pmCan somebody here run a tournament of all the NN and NNUE engines Besides SF NNUE, Komodo Dragon, and Lela, which are obviously the strongest one. and post it here or create a Link on Youtube.com ?
Just add the engines you want, and a link to the engines for me to add them. And I will run your tournament.
Who is 17 years old GM Gukesh 2nd at the Candidate in Toronto?
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
You should not separate types of engine and creating a separate rating list. This only makes sense creating separate rating list with chess variants. Like FRC! Your ratings pool should include every engine the can play that form of chess.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:27 amThe only one that I do NOT see here on this list is aOlite and Tornado NNUE, but this list should be sufficient to start for the first time to have an Only NNUE separate ratings just like Graham have a separate rating for standard ab and FRC, and you could be the person running this NNUE matches here and whenever somebody add NNUE to their engine you can include them on your NNUE rating list. I strongly believe that Defense and Vajolet chess would greatly benefit from adding NNUE. I see that Nemorino NNUE has become extremely strong after adding NNUE take a look here https://tcec-chess.com/live.htmlmwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:07 amSure I can do this easily. I have Dragon, Lc0, Stockfish on my system.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:59 pmCan somebody here run a tournament of all the NN and NNUE engines Besides SF NNUE, Komodo Dragon, and Lela, which are obviously the strongest one. and post it here or create a Link on Youtube.com ?
Just add the engines you want, and a link to the engines for me to add them. And I will run your tournament.
"The worst thing that can happen to a forum is a running wild attacking moderator(HGM) who is not corrected by the community." - Ed Schröder
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
how is Halogen "NNUE", seriously?! it uses the most common-sense and natural topology, 768xnx1, (n used to be 128 now 256) - that's 50 times less weights than "NNUE" topo
since 768 is a very natural way to represent the input (2*6*64) and it's also very sparse (up to 32 out of these 768 is nonzero),
that's 32*256 actually for the 1st set of weights (or less as the game progresses) or 8448 ops, I bet this can be fast enough without any extra accumulator/state that's actually the key of "efficiently updated" in NNUE.
also, since the partial dot product of input vs 1st hidden layer weights (because you only care about nonzero input which is 1), you don't actually need to multiply anything and simply sum the appropriate weights
since 768 is a very natural way to represent the input (2*6*64) and it's also very sparse (up to 32 out of these 768 is nonzero),
that's 32*256 actually for the 1st set of weights (or less as the game progresses) or 8448 ops, I bet this can be fast enough without any extra accumulator/state that's actually the key of "efficiently updated" in NNUE.
also, since the partial dot product of input vs 1st hidden layer weights (because you only care about nonzero input which is 1), you don't actually need to multiply anything and simply sum the appropriate weights
Martin Sedlak
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
Who is 17 years old GM Gukesh 2nd at the Candidate in Toronto?
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
In that case if Ethereal was equal to Houdini 6 and gained another +180 elo with the addition of SF Network it should be in the top 4 or 5 engines, congratulationsAndrewGrant wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:54 pm+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
Note: So who will test all these NN engines including Tornado which I do NOT see here
Who is 17 years old GM Gukesh 2nd at the Candidate in Toronto?
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
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Re: How many NN Engines are there ?
Its already in the top 4 or 5 engines. Houdini and Fire are clones.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:24 pmIn that case if Ethereal was equal to Houdini 6 and gained another +180 elo with the addition of SF Network it should be in the top 4 or 5 engines, congratulationsAndrewGrant wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:54 pm+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
Note: So who will test all these NN engines including Tornado which I do NOT see here
Stockfish, Komodo, Ethereal, Leela. Top 4 engines, in no particular order.
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