Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

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Chessqueen
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Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm

This surprising elo gain happened after the implementation of NNUE,But what it seems more surprising in this league no engine has won a single game with the Black Pieces YET. https://tcec-chess.com/live.html

Chessqueen
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:45 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm
This surprising elo gain happened after the implementation of NNUE,But what it seems more surprising in this league no engine has won a single game with the Black Pieces YET. https://tcec-chess.com/live.html
WOW rodChade the first engine to win with Black Pieces against Nemorino

dkappe
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by dkappe » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:19 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm
This surprising elo gain happened after the implementation of NNUE,But what it seems more surprising in this league no engine has won a single game with the Black Pieces YET. https://tcec-chess.com/live.html
The opening author (Cato?) stated that his goal was to put black on the knifes edge between draw and loss, yet still seen often in human play. All of the opening exits have been close to +1.00. The challenge, then, is for an engine to win with white and draw with black.

Pi4Chess
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Pi4Chess » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:36 pm

dkappe wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:19 pm

The opening author (Cato?) stated that his goal was to put black on the knifes edge between draw and loss, yet still seen often in human play. All of the opening exits have been close to +1.00. The challenge, then, is for an engine to win with white and draw with black.
You mean like Stefan Pohl Unbalanced Human Openings ? https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Normally it's a way to avoid draws and see quicker the elo differences. When an engine can draw or even win with Black then its elo difference with white engine is very visible.

Angle
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Angle » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:06 am

Pi4Chess wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:36 pm
You mean like Stefan Pohl Unbalanced Human Openings ? https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Normally it's a way to avoid draws and see quicker the elo differences. When an engine can draw or even win with Black then its elo difference with white engine is very visible.
Perhaps, in this case the elo differenece is overpriced because in *real life* balanced openings normaly are used.
Incredibly fast systems miscount incredibly fast.

Chessqueen
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:28 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:45 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm
This surprising elo gain happened after the implementation of NNUE,But what it seems more surprising in this league no engine has won a single game with the Black Pieces YET. https://tcec-chess.com/live.html
WOW rodChade the first engine to win with Black Pieces against Nemorino. here it is in case you missed it :roll:
https://tcec-chess.com/#div=l1&game=30&season=20

Chessqueen
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:29 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm
This surprising elo gain happened after the implementation of NNUE,But what it seems more surprising in this league no engine has won a single game with the Black Pieces YET. https://tcec-chess.com/live.html
Here is a position in which most human GMs will probably move its White King TO b6 and later promote, here comes the Big Surprise Nemorino promote to Queen and Ethereal resigned after taking the Queen thinking for 1 minute :shock:
https://tcec-chess.com/live.html#div=l1 ... &season=20


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Guenther
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Guenther » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:49 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:29 am

Here is a position in which most human GMs will probably move its White King TO b6 and later promote, here comes the Big Surprise Nemorino promote to Queen and Ethereal resigned after taking the Queen thinking for 1 minute :shock:
https://tcec-chess.com/live.html#div=l1 ... &season=20

Obviously you cannot read TCEC graphs and output properly, moreover uci engines don't resign at all.

Nemorino thought 4 minutes and Ethereal answered in 5 seconds, then the GUI adjudicated the game as a TBS win (syzygy 6men adjudication).
Nemorinos move also is no surprise at all, it is a typical move with using tablebases...
https://rwbc-chess.de
HGM@'chessqueen' 2018-present, aka: 'George' 2013-2016, 'pichy' 2006-2013, 'Jorge Pichard' 2000-2006 (old forum) wrote: http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... 79#p789713

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:45 pm

dkappe wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:19 pm
The opening author (Cato?) stated that his goal was to put black on the knifes edge between draw and loss, yet still seen often in human play. All of the opening exits have been close to +1.00. The challenge, then, is for an engine to win with white and draw with black.
The opening author for League One is now Bastiaan J. Braam, according to the TCEC opening FAQ: https://wiki.chessdom.org/Openings_FAQ

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: Nemorino is surprising everybody in League 1

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:48 pm

Pi4Chess wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:36 pm
You mean like Stefan Pohl Unbalanced Human Openings ? https://www.sp-cc.de/unbalanced-human-openings.htm

Normally it's a way to avoid draws and see quicker the elo differences. When an engine can draw or even win with Black then its elo difference with white engine is very visible.
TCEC League 1 is now around the level of the old Premier Division/Superfinal from three years ago, so it isn't been surprising that the TCEC tournament directors have decided to use more unbalanced openings in League 1 in recent seasons.

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