Learn by playing, NOT by letting a top engine to figure it out for you!

[Chessqueen]

For Players between 1550 to 1950, I only was going to ask for players on this forum rated between 1600 to 1950, but I know that there are lots of 1550 that are very knowledgeable with endgame; please do NOT use any engine with EGTB to help you, Look at this position for 2 Minutes and let me know if you can win with White pieces or if you can draw with the Black pieces.

[d]5r2/6R1/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 16 81

[Chessqueen]

For Players between 1550 to 1950, I only was going to ask for players on this forum rated between 1600 to 1950, but I know that there are lots of 1550 that are very knowledgeable with endgame; please do NOT use any engine with EGTB to help you, Look at this position for 2 Minutes and let me know if you can win with White pieces or if you can draw with the Black pieces.

[d]5r2/6R1/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 16 81

Any player rated 1550 or above should be familiar with pawns opposition, the only thing that you should be aware is that is you decides to trade Rook the Black King has to be in the correct square in comparison to the White King. This position is similar to this one where the opposition principle is applied except that there is an extra Rook for both sides so if you really know how to play the opposition of pawns you should be able to draw even against Carlsen or the strongest engine on Earth. Later on I will post from where this position was taken it was from a real game

[d]8/8/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 1

[abgursu]

I didn't analyze but it seems re7 is winning.

[Chessqueen]

I didn't analyze but it seems re7 is winning.

It is Black to move, that is why there is a circular black DOT on the upper right hand, but even if it was White to move it is still a draw, no matter if you play Versus LCZero or Stockfish NNUE. as long as you know the pawn opposition principle and you should practice and learn it, that will alone give you an extra 50 Elo improvement. Chess is NOT about guessing or looking at a position and assuming that is a win. As I mentioned before the position on top with the two extra Rooks one for each side does NOT change the pawn opposition principle, as long as you know where your Black King will end if you decides to trade Rooks. Please pick any engine rated around that has pawn opposition chess knowledge or Komodo 12 which is Free and practice these positions and you will increase your endgame knowledge a little. Every chess player rated between 1400 to 1600 should master at least this three positions, and trust me I have seen 1700 players on club who still do NOT know the pawn opposition principle specially if you add a Rook to both sides, even BiKJump engine rated 2120 does NOT know what to do without EGTB with the position above. Again if you do NOT have a good chess program download Komodo 11 or 12 for free and practice once you know the pawn opposition principle good, by heart if you see any position with an extra Rooks like in this case or extra Bishops or Knight try to trade them an look for a draw if you have the side with a pawn less than your opponent. Just to start pick up this position that I posted here and practice with Komodo or stockfish10 thru stockfish12. Remember if you have a position similar to these on Youtube.com NO matter if you opponent is Carlsen or stockfish 12 as long as you master these positions here you can hold them into a draw.

[RubiChess]

...
please do NOT use any engine with EGTB to help you
...

So what is the point posting this in a forum called "Computer Chess Club"? I don't expect any answer!

[Chessqueen]

...
please do NOT use any engine with EGTB to help you
...

So what is the point posting this in a forum called "Computer Chess Club"? I don't expect any answer!

The point that I wanted to bring into attention here is that the way they test chess engines is NOT really showing their strength in endgame knowledge, since even a master level program like BiKjump was only able to reach that level due to using EGTB. But in reality only a few master level program have basic pawn opposition principle knowledge and to prove it I chose BiKjump rated 2120 without EGTB, and this is what happened it did NOT make the opposition move to save the position with Black. And later I reverse it with Rubichess playing. Black and as you see Rubichess save the draw without using EGTB and look how easy Rubichess was able to save the draw using opposition principles. The way testing sites are testing with big opening Books and 6 or 7 EGTB pieces only show the strength of the engine middlegame, NOT the engines openings or endgame own knowledge.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.01.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "RubiChess-1.9"]
[Black "Bikjump"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2120"]
[Time "13:21:39"]
[WhiteElo "3294"]
[TimeControl "600+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5r2/7R/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "143"]


1. ... Kd6 2. Ke4 Re8+ 3. Kf5 Re1 4. Kg5 Rg1+ 5. Kf6 Rf1 6. f5 Re1 7. Kg6
Re2 8. f6 Rf2 9. Ra7 Ke6 10. Ra6+ Ke5 11. Kg7 Rg2+ 12. Kf8 Rf2 13. f7 Kd4
14. Re6 Rb2 15. Re7 Kd5 16. Re8 Kc4 17. Ke7 Re2+ 18. Kd7 Rd2+ 19. Kc7 Rf2
20. f8=Q Rxf8 21. Rxf8 Kd4 22. Kd6 Ke4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

Later I reverse it with Rubichess playing Black and as you see Rubichess save the draw without using EGTB and look how easy Rubichess was able to save the draw using opposition principles. The way testing sites are testing with big opening Books and 6 or 7 EGTB pieces only show the strength of the engine middlegame, NOT the engines openings or endgame own knowledge.


[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.01.23"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Bikjump"]
[Black "RubiChess-1.9"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3294"]
[Time "13:58:12"]
[WhiteElo "2120"]
[TimeControl "600+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5r2/7R/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "153"]


1. ... Kd6 2. Rh1 Ke7 3. Ke4 Kf6 4. Ra1 Re8+ 5. Kf3 Rg8 6. Ra6+ Kf5 7. Ra5+
Kf6 8. Ra3 Kf5 9. Re3 Rg1 10. Re5+ Kf6 11. Rh5 Rf1+ 12. Ke4 Re1+ 13. Kd3
Rg1 14. Ke3 Re1+ 15. Kf2 Rd1 16. Re5 Rd4 17. Kf3 Rd1 18. Rb5 Rf1+ 19. Ke4
Re1+ 20. Kf3 Rf1+ 21. Ke3 Re1+ 22. Kf2 Re4 23. Kf3 Re1 24. Kg3 Rg1+ 25. Kf2
Rg4 26. Kf3 Rg1 27. Ra5 Rf1+ 28. Ke3 Re1+ 29. Kf2 Re4 30. Kf3 Re1 31. Rd5
Rf1+ 32. Kg4 Rg1+ 33. Kf3 Rf1+ 34. Kg3 Rg1+ 35. Kf2 Rg4 36. Ke3 Rg1 37. Ra5
Re1+ 38. Kf2 Re4 39. Kg3 Re1 40. Ra8 Kf5 41. Rf8+ Kg6 42. f5+ Kg7 43. Rb8
Kf6 44. Kg4 Rg1+ 45. Kf4 Rf1+ 46. Kg4 Rg1+ 47. Kf3 Kxf5 48. Rb5+ Ke6 49.
Rb6+ Kf7 50. Ke4 Re1+ 51. Kf4 Rh1 52. Ke5 Rh3 53. Rb7+ Ke8 54. Kd6 Rf3 55.
Rb8+ Kf7 56. Ra8 Rg3 57. Ra7+ Kg8 58. Kc5 Kh8 59. Ra8+ Kh7 60. Ra7+ Kh8 61.
Ra8+ Kh7 62. Ra7+ Kh8 {3-fold repetition} *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

I didn't analyze but it seems re7 is winning.

In the beginning I promised that I would reveal what engine played the opposition endgame incorrectly, it was an actual ga,e and Sargon 1978 Beta 89.....Rf7 was the blunder move since after the exchange White gets the opposition and since Black gave the opposition square to White it could no longer hold a draw. Anyway the position I gave you was after move 81. Rg7 (the position of White Rook either Rg7 or Rh7 really does NOT matter for this illustration) and Black to move. It would be interesting to see a few game between you and Sargon-1878 V-1.01Beta, to see if you can at least wait until the endgame and get a draw

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.01.21"]
[Round "10"]
[White "Casper rated 1575"]
[Black "Sargon-1978-V1.01Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1560"]
[ECO "D43"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "15:48:36"]
[Variation "Moscow, Hastings Variation"]
[WhiteElo "1575"]
[TimeControl "600+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "101"]


1. c4 e6 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. d4 d5 4. Nf3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. Qb3 Nd7 8.
e4 dxc4 9. Bxc4 b5 10. Bd3 e5 11. dxe5 Nxe5 12. Nxe5 Qxe5 13. Ne2 Be6 14.
f4 Qc5 15. Qc3 O-O-O 16. Qxc5 Bxc5 17. Bb1 Bc4 18. Bc2 Bb4+ 19. Nc3 Bxc3+
20. bxc3 Kb7 21. a3 g5 22. fxg5 hxg5 23. Rd1 Rxd1+ 24. Kxd1 g4 25. Kd2 g3
26. h4 c5 27. Ke3 Rh6 28. Kf4 Ra6 29. Ra1 Rg6 30. e5 Re6 31. Be4+ Kb6 32.
a4 bxa4 33. Rxa4 Bb5 34. Ra2 Rh6 35. Kxg3 Rh5 36. Rb2 Ka6 37. Ra2+ Kb6 38.
Bd5 Rxe5 39. c4 Be8 40. Rb2+ Ka6 41. Rb1 Re3+ 42. Kf4 Re7 43. Rb2 Re1 44.
Rb7 f6 45. Rc7 Kb6 46. Rb7+ Ka6 47. Rh7 Ba4 48. Rf7 Rf1+ 49. Bf3 Bb3 50.
Rxf6+ Ka5 51. Rc6 Kb4 52. Ra6 Bxc4 53. Rxa7 Bd5 54. h5 Bxf3 55. gxf3 c4 56.
h6 c3 57. Rb7+ Kc4 58. Rc7+ Kd3 59. h7 Rh1 60. Rd7+ Kc4 61. Ke3 c2 62. Rc7+
Kb3 63. Kd2 Rd1+ 64. Ke3 Rh1 65. Kd3 Rd1+ 66. Ke2 Rd8 67. f4 Kb2 68. Rb7+
Ka1 69. h8=Q+ Rxh8 70. Kd2 Rh2+ 71. Kc1 Ka2 72. Rb2+ Ka3 73. Rxc2 Rh1+ 74.
Kd2 Kb3 75. Rc3+ Kb4 76. Rc7 Rh8 77. Rb7+ Kc5 78. Rf7 Kd6 79. Rb7 Rf8 80.
Ke3 Kc6 81. Rg7 Kd6 82. Kf3 Ke6 83. Rg6+ Rf6 84. Rg1 Rf5 85. Re1+ Kf6 86.
Rd1 Kf7 87. Ke4 Rf6 88. Rd7+ Ke8 89. Rh7 Rf7 90. Rxf7 Kxf7 91. Ke5 Ke7 92.
f5 Kf7 93. f6 Ke8 94. Ke6 Kf8 95. f7 Kg7 96. Ke7 Kg6 97. f8=Q Kg5 98. Qf3
Kg6 99. Qg4+ Kh7 100. Kf6 Kh6 101. Qg6# *
[/quote][/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

To show the importance of Knowing the pawns opposition principle, which if you remove the Rooks from both sides or manage to exchange it and still manage to keep the opposition in relation to the White King, it does not matter if you are playing versus Carlsen or a top engine you should be able to get a draw. So since i do NOT or can NOT play this position versus Carlsen or any top super GM, and of course they will not play versus me, they will simply look at the position and know that by forcing the exchange of the Rooks or by keeping the Rooks I or anybody who know this basic pawns opposition rules should be able to draw. Therefore I decided to play it out versus Komodo and here it is.

[pgn][Event "Testing my endgame"]
[Date "2021.01.24"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "1900"]
[Time "20:50:37"]
[WhiteElo "3470"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5r2/6R1/2k5/8/5P2/4K3/8/8 b - - 1 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. ... Kd6 2. Rg6+ Ke7 3. Kf3 Rf5 4. Rb6 Ra5 5. Rb7+ Kf6 6. Kg4 Kg6 7. Rb3
Ra6 8. Rc3 Rd6 9. Rc7 Ra6 10. Rc8 Rf6 11. Rg8+ Kf7 12. Ra8 Rg6+ 13. Kf3 Rg8
14. Rxg8 Kxg8 15. Kg4 Kf8 16. Kg5 Kg7 17. Kh5 Kf7 18. f5 Kf6 19. Kg4 Ke7
20. f6+ Kxf6 {Insufficient material} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]