Fat Fritz 2

[hammerklavier]

I miss the Original Fritz...Franz Morsch engine!!!
It would be the only version that I would gladly pay... Fritz 14 (2021 Reborn!).... Stockfish is an excelent engine...all know that, but nowadays nostalgia sells more than play strength!.

Regards from Argentina!

[crem]

what's the github repository link?

They don't have a repo, they just have a patch, which mostly just renames Stockfish to FF2:

https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... d2ad48a8cc

[dkappe]

A useless clone, taking advantage of the work of unpaid volunteers that didn't put a price tag for advancing computer chess, trying to get money from people that don't know better.

Legal but shady.

The scheme only work with deceptive marketing (using SF-dev for their clone, comparing performance to SF12...). It's not an outright scam, but it's not much better.

I’m sorry you feel my work is a scam.

If you're not the one who made FF2, then there is no reason for you to be taken on right?

Other than the fact that I don’t charge for my work, there’s really no difference between my nets and FF2. And let’s be clear: the GPL isn’t anti business or anti profit. Quite the opposite.

[dkappe]

what's the github repository link?

They don't have a repo, they just have a patch, which mostly just renames Stockfish to FF2:

https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... d2ad48a8cc

Let me help you out. The code changes are in the architecture part. They modify the size of various layers in the net. If you have any other questions, just let me know.

[abgursu]

A useless clone, taking advantage of the work of unpaid volunteers that didn't put a price tag for advancing computer chess, trying to get money from people that don't know better.

Legal but shady.

The scheme only work with deceptive marketing (using SF-dev for their clone, comparing performance to SF12...). It's not an outright scam, but it's not much better.

I’m sorry you feel my work is a scam.

If you're not the one who made FF2, then there is no reason for you to be taken on right?

Other than the fact that I don’t charge for my work, there’s really no difference between my nets and FF2. And let’s be clear: the GPL isn’t anti business or anti profit. Quite the opposite.

The fact is you don't get a charge but he is. Nobody would criticize against him if he would share everything freely.
Also, I am not sure which part of GPL says you can sell some clone+your changes. GPL is for being respectful while making money. He did not create anything from start in this product. Some Stockfish.exe renamed as Fat Fritz and that is all we can see. NNUE is embedded for us to not copy anything.
He know if he tried to sell only his net it wouldn't be sold at all. He is selling that product with Stockfish.

[can00336]

There are only three non-cosmetic changes to Stockfish in FF2 given the provided source code. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... d2ad48a8cc

They are as follows:
1. Setting contempt to default to 0. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... a8ac054R38
2. A single parameter changed in NNUE evaluation. I read that this value was tuned. Fishtest could verify the usefulness. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... 25102R1056
3. Doubling a constant required to allow larger NNUE networks. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... a8ac054R38

TL;DR the changes are trivial.

[dkappe]

A useless clone, taking advantage of the work of unpaid volunteers that didn't put a price tag for advancing computer chess, trying to get money from people that don't know better.

Legal but shady.

The scheme only work with deceptive marketing (using SF-dev for their clone, comparing performance to SF12...). It's not an outright scam, but it's not much better.

I’m sorry you feel my work is a scam.

If you're not the one who made FF2, then there is no reason for you to be taken on right?

Other than the fact that I don’t charge for my work, there’s really no difference between my nets and FF2. And let’s be clear: the GPL isn’t anti business or anti profit. Quite the opposite.

The fact is you don't get a charge but he is. Nobody would criticize against him if he would share everything freely.
Also, I am not sure which part of GPL says you can sell some clone+your changes. GPL is for being respectful while making money. He did not create anything from start in this product. Some Stockfish.exe renamed as Fat Fritz and that is all we can see. NNUE is embedded for us to not copy anything.
He know if he tried to sell only his net it wouldn't be sold at all. He is selling that product with Stockfish.

The net is data, not code. I’ll refer you to the GPLv3 FAQ (https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html).

Is there some way that I can GPL the output people get from use of my program? For example, if my program is used to develop hardware designs, can I require that these designs must be free?

In general this is legally impossible; copyright law does not give you any say in the use of the output people make from their data using your program. If the user uses your program to enter or convert her own data, the copyright on the output belongs to her, not you. More generally, when a program translates its input into some other form, the copyright status of the output inherits that of the input it was generated from.

So the only way you have a say in the use of the output is if substantial parts of the output are copied (more or less) from text in your program. For instance, part of the output of Bison (see above) would be covered by the GNU GPL, if we had not made an exception in this specific case.

You could artificially make a program copy certain text into its output even if there is no technical reason to do so. But if that copied text serves no practical purpose, the user could simply delete that text from the output and use only the rest. Then he would not have to obey the conditions on redistribution of the copied text.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

Does the Fat Fritz 2 binary include the network, or is it a separate file?

[Werner]

No separate net, it’s included , hardcoded I think.

[abgursu]

Does the Fat Fritz 2 binary include the network, or is it a separate file?

There is no other file they say. Only binary and hidden "inside" net.

There are only three non-cosmetic changes to Stockfish in FF2 given the provided source code. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... d2ad48a8cc

They are as follows:
1. Setting contempt to default to 0. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... a8ac054R38
2. A single parameter changed in NNUE evaluation. I read that this value was tuned. Fishtest could verify the usefulness. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... 25102R1056
3. Doubling a constant required to allow larger NNUE networks. https://github.com/DanielUranga/Stockfi ... a8ac054R38

TL;DR the changes are trivial.

I see. Just wanted to add that if I try to build a large net like this I won't let classical eval to interrupt it. To be more effective, larger evals must be pure.
If there is only one file and that is binary, dkappe, everything is code. Or this means I can rename it, name myself as an author right next to a general authors word and sell it by just adding one more eval term.