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Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:48 am
by M ANSARI
I don't see the negativity about this new development. Why is it so bad that someone can make money on computer chess?? Someone has spent many hours working on something that has improved SF 12, and wants some financial compensation for the time and effort spent. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I do wish more would do the same.
If you feel you can use this and the effort is worth it ... you buy it. If you disagree with the concept and feel all the hard work is not worth it ... you skip it. Simple!
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:56 am
by pohl4711
AB-testrun of Fat Fritz 2 finished.
FF2 has a default Contempt of 0, what I believe is not good for ratinglist-testruns (FF2 is very strong and plays versus weaker opponents in a ratinglist-testrun). Because FF2 is a Stockfish-binary (only the nnue-net is different) and Stockfish has a default Contempt of 24, I decided to test FF2 with Contempt=24, too. So, the result of the FF2-testrun is better comparable with my latest SF-testrun (SF 210131): Same Contempt, same 7 opponents...
https://www.sp-cc.de
(Perhaps you have to clear your browsercache or reload the website)
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:59 am
by smatovic
Oh no, I lost my bet, it was on "Fat Fish"
--
Srdja
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:32 am
by smatovic
nevermind. less is more.
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:38 am
by Collingwood
Alayan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:53 pm
It's shameful that Fat Fritz (Leela variant and Stockfish variant) is marked as an independent engine family on CCRL.
Who are the CCRL folks who can be corresponded with about this?
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:43 am
by Graham Banks
Collingwood wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:38 am
Alayan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:53 pm
It's shameful that Fat Fritz (Leela variant and Stockfish variant) is marked as an independent engine family on CCRL.
Who are the CCRL folks who can be corresponded with about this?
We're already aware of the issue.
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:58 am
by Andrew
The Chessbase article linked above "Fat Fritz 2: The Best of Both Worlds " gives some ratings, but Stockfish has improved since then, not a selling point.
A couple of test positions are shown as well, but only giving times for one run when using a multi-thread analysis is useless, the times to solve a position can vary up and down by an enornous factor,
Then the test positions given,
Shirov's miracle ...Bh3!! My old 4 thread PC can solve this very quickly with one of the latest Crystal verions.
Petrosian - Fischer (1971) Candidates SF, game 6
I don't get he same move, but with Crystal and others it's quick too see there are multiple moves that look to be winning.
So at the end of the day, the high Euro price for this update is impossible to justify. Sure it's taken a lot of work, but what's the improvement
that makes me want to fork out my cash?? I bought the latest Komodo because it is different. This, nothing evident yet!
Andrew
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:08 am
by Modern Times
Collingwood wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:38 am
Alayan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:53 pm
It's shameful that Fat Fritz (Leela variant and Stockfish variant) is marked as an independent engine family on CCRL.
Who are the CCRL folks who can be corresponded with about this?
We ought to have all the Fritz branded engines under one Fritz family, rather than the two families "Fritz" and "Fat Fritz". That is my opinion. Over the years Fritz has had a few authors and flavours. I think they should all be together.
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:10 am
by Ozymandias
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:48 amSomeone has spent many hours working on something that has improved SF 12
Not even to the level of one month old SF dev:
Code: Select all
1 Stockfish 2021-01-11 64-bit 3537 +25 −24 80.5% −227.5 38.0% 668
2 Fat Fritz 2 64-bit 3520 +27 −26 76.8% −189.8 44.8% 520
Re: Fat Fritz 2
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:15 am
by Modern Times
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:48 am
I don't see the negativity about this new development. Why is it so bad that someone can make money on computer chess?? Someone has spent many hours working on something that has improved SF 12, and wants some financial compensation for the time and effort spent. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I do wish more would do the same.
If you feel you can use this and the effort is worth it ... you buy it. If you disagree with the concept and feel all the hard work is not worth it ... you skip it. Simple!
That is my thinking as well. Most of the anger here seems to be around the money side of things and a historical animosity towards chessbase themselves and Albert personally in some cases it seems. Quite distasteful.