Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

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Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Chessqueen »

Top Engines need to have the what if statement, for instance any GM if it see itself with this losing position with the White side will immediately offer its Bishop located on c2 and place it on a4! giving Check to the Black King, knowing that in such losing position if it does not offer the Bishop it will lose the game, but todays Top Engines are still too materialistic and will never consider giving the White Bishop away, but if a what is statement is included to give material away, and in this case the Bishop, it will immediately find the saving draw.

[d]3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1

I just took Stockfish 13 for instance, but I believe that there is no top engine that will consider giving material away, since they are too materrialistic to save the draw :roll:

FEN: 3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 1 1

Stockfish 13:
6/8 00:00 10k 5,120k -3.78 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Bxa6 gxf4+ Kf3
7/11 00:00 11k 5,372k -3.78 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Bxa6 gxf4+ Kf3 Bxd8 Bxb7+ Kxd4 exf6 axb2
8/18 00:00 45k 7,508k -6.63 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 gxf4+ Kxf4 dxe5+ dxe5 fxe5+ Ke3 Qxa2
9/19 00:00 65k 8,080k -6.18 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2
10/20 00:00 109k 8,419k -6.98 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 exf6 Kxf6 Bd3 Qxa5
11/23 00:00 183k 9,175k -7.01 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bc8+ Kd5 Bb7+ Kxd4
12/21 00:00 203k 9,229k -7.01 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bc8+ Kd5 Bb7+ Kxd4 Bd8 Qb3+ Ke2 Qxh3
13/28 00:00 429k 9,753k -7.12 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bd3 dxe5
14/24 00:00 528k 9,953k -6.86 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 exf6 Qf2+ Kg5 Qxf6+ Kh5 Qxd4 Bxb4 Qh8+ Kg5 Qf6+ Kh5 cxb4
15/31 00:00 1,097k 10,756k -6.75 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 f5+ Kd7 Bxb7 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qe1+ Kf3 Qc3+ Ke2 Qxh3 Bb7 Qxg4+ Bf3 Qxf5 exf6
16/35 00:00 3,742k 11,374k -7.48 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Ke2 Qb2+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 cxd4 exf6 Qxa5 Bc4+ Kxf6 Kd1
17/38 00:00 3,869k 11,346k -7.48 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Ke2 Qb2+ Ke3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa5 Bd3
18/40 00:00 5,371k 11,501k -7.55 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Ke2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke1 Qg3+ Kd2 Qxh3 Be2 d5
19/42 00:00 6,385k 11,587k -7.59 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke1 Qe3+ Be2 Qc3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Kf1 e6
20/38 00:00 8,263k 11,605k -7.66 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke2 Qe5+ Kd3 Qg3+ Kc2 Qg2+ Kb1 Qxh3
21/38 00:00 9,615k 11,585k -7.71 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qf4+ Ke2 Qe5+ Kd3 Qg3+ Kc4 Qxh3 Bc8 e6
22/45 00:01 17,484k 11,774k -7.89 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 Bc8 Qxh3+ Kf2 e6 g5+ Kxg5 Ba6 d5 Ke2
23/51 00:01 21,205k 11,873k -7.97 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Ke1 Qxa5 Bc8+ Kd5 exd6 Kxd6 dxc5+ Qxc5 Bf5 Qe3+ Kd1 Qxh3 Kd2 Qg3 Kc2 h3 Bd3 Qxg4 Kb3 h2
24/41 00:02 30,563k 11,990k -8.12 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Ke3 Qe1+ Kf3 cxd4 exf6 Qe3+ Kg2 Qg3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 d3 Bxd3 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxd3+ Kg2
25/53- 00:03 37,792k 12,024k -8.20 c4+ Kxc4
25/53 00:04 54,266k 12,089k -8.27 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 g5+ Kxg5 Bb5 Qxh3+ Kf2 Kf4 Ba6 Qf3+ Ke1 h3 Bc8 Qc3+ Ke2
26/53- 00:05 69,678k 12,143k -8.36 c4+ Kxc4
26/53- 00:06 73,139k 12,113k -8.44 c4+ Kxc4
26/53- 00:07 88,468k 12,202k -8.56 c4+ Kxc4
26/53 00:07 94,781k 12,239k -8.64 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 Bc8 e6 Ke2 Qxh3 Bb7 Qxg4+ Bf3 Qxf3+ Kxf3
27/47+ 00:08 107,499k 12,307k -8.56 c4+
27/47- 00:09 111,357k 12,296k -8.72 c4+ Kxc4
27/47+ 00:09 111,438k 12,296k -8.60 c4+
27/49 00:09 114,731k 12,285k -8.73 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kxf4 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 Bc8+ Kxe5 Bd8 b3 Bxe7 c4 Bf5 Qe3+ Kf1 c3 Bxf6+ Kxf6 Bh7 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qxg4 Bb1
28/49- 00:11 143,436k 12,310k -8.81 c4+ Kxc4
28/49+ 00:11 143,627k 12,308k -8.73 c4+
28/49+ 00:11 143,946k 12,307k -8.61 c4+
28/51 00:12 160,213k 12,335k -8.88 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 d5+ Kd7 Bxa6 dxe5+ Ke3 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bb5+ Kd6 Bd8 c4 g5 fxg5 Kf3 c3 Bd3 Qxd5+ Ke3 Qg2 Bxe7+ Kxe7 Bf5 Kf6 Bd3 Qxh3+ Ke2
29/37+ 00:13 160,531k 12,334k -8.80 c4+
29/37+ 00:13 160,631k 12,334k -8.72 c4+
29/37+ 00:13 161,255k 12,335k -8.60 c4+
29/42 00:14 182,790k 12,357k -8.93 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kf2 Qh2+ Ke1 Qg1+ Ke2 Qe3+ Kd1 Qxd4+ Kc2 Kxe5 g5 fxg5 Bd8 f3 Bxe7 Qc3+ Kb1 f2 Bf8 Qxh3 Bg7+ Ke4 Ba1 f1Q+ Bxf1 Qxf1+ Kb2 Qf6+ Kb1
30/50+ 00:15 194,859k 12,354k -8.85 c4+
30/50- 00:17 220,423k 12,353k -9.01 c4+ Kxc4
30/50+ 00:18 227,702k 12,382k -8.88 c4+
30/50 00:20 259,868k 12,455k -9.04 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Ke2 Qe4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Ke2 Qxg4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Ke2 Qb2+ Kf3 Qa3+ Kf4 Qxa5
31/47- 00:25 314,533k 12,398k -9.12 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:30 384,691k 12,526k -9.20 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:37 463,584k 12,495k -9.33 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:43 538,831k 12,448k -9.50 c4+ Kxc4
31/55+ 00:47 587,910k 12,430k -9.36 c4+
31/55+ 00:48 598,703k 12,448k -9.03 c4+
31/55 00:52 654,296k 12,557k -8.81 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kxf4 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kf3 Qd5+ Ke2 Qe4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Ke2 Qxg4+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Kf1 Qa1+ Kg2 Qxa5 Bf1 Qa8+ Kg1 b3 Bc4
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
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Spliffjiffer
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Spliffjiffer »

the modern nets "prunned this knowledge away" imo....u can look eg for older nets by Sergio...eg: "20200724-1240.bin"
it will solve this puzzle instantly as well as Gusev's 24.Qxe5 for example...the nets that SF currently uses are peaked on the basis of playing-strengh currently and are not designed to solve puzzles....u can find all nnue nets by Sergio here if u like to test it:
https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~sergio-v/nnue/
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.
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Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Chessqueen »

Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:12 pm the modern nets "prunned this knowledge away" imo....u can look eg for older nets by Sergio...eg: "20200724-1240.bin"
it will solve this puzzle instantly as well as Gusev's 24.Qxe5 for example...the nets that SF currently uses are peaked on the basis of playing-strengh currently and are not designed to solve puzzles....u can find all nnue nets by Sergio here if u like to test it:
https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~sergio-v/nnue/
This is the solution I played it out versus Stockfish 13 and I got a draw easy :roll:

[d]3k4/1r2p3/r2pPp2/b1pP1Pp1/1pP3Pp/pP2K2P/P7/8 b - - 0 6

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.04.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Stockfish_13_win_x64_bmi2 [001]"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "05:54:05"]
[WhiteElo "34750"]
[TimeControl "13200+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Ba4+ Kxa4 {(Kxa4) +15.06/25 1} 2. b3+ Kb5 {(Kb5 c4+ Kc6 exf6 cxd4+ Kf3
exf6 Bxf6 gxf4 g5 Bb6 g6 d3 Bxh4 d2 Ke2 Rg7 Kxd2 f3 Kd3 Rxg6 Ke4 f2 Bxf2
Bxf2 h4 Rg1 Kf3 Bb6 Kf4 Ra1) +15.80/25 0} 3. c4+ Kc6 {(Kc6) +16.13/25} 4.
d5+ Kd7 {(Kd7 exf6 gxf4+ Ke4 exf6 Bxf6 Bd8 g5 Bxf6 gxf6 Ra8 Kxf4 Rg8 f7 Rf8
Kg4 Rxf7 Kg5 Rf2 Kg6 Rxa2 Kf5 Rb2 Kg4 Rxb3 Kf5 a2 Kg4) +16.94/25 0} 5. e6+
Kxd8 {(Kxd8 f5) +12.62/49 13} 6. f5 *[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
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Spliffjiffer
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Spliffjiffer »

hm...ok, not bad...yeah, well thats what i wanted to hear but remember that SF currently has only around 3500 elo...im not completely sure if u could draw this as well against a 3800 colossus (especially by knowing the solution already)...i think it might trick u sooner or later maybe...anyway, there seems to be no way through your pawnchain, congratulations
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.
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Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Chessqueen »

Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:28 pm hm...ok, not bad...yeah, well thats what i wanted to hear but remember that SF currently has only around 3500 elo...im not completely sure if u could draw this as well against a 3800 colossus (especially by knowing the solution already)...i think it might trick u sooner or later maybe...anyway, there seems to be no way through your pawnchain, congratulations

I honestly do NOT believe that any engine not even 3800 colossus can avoid a draw or even trick me, unless X Engine can hypnotize me, since any other moves by the Black King lose immediately :mrgreen:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.04.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Stockfish_13_win_x64_bmi2 [001]"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "3475"]
[Time "05:54:05"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "13200+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]


1. Ba4+ Kc4 2. Bb3+ {(Bb3+) +8.80/33 41} Kb5 3. c4+ {(c4+) +8.78/33 44} Kc6
4. Ba4+ {(Ba4+ Rb5 cxb5+ Kb7 bxa6+ Kxa6 Bxe7 b3 Bxb3 axb2 Bc2 dxe5 dxe5
gxf4+ Kxf4 fxe5+ Kf5 Kb5 g5 Bd2 g6 Bh6 Bg5 Bg7 Bf6 Bf8 Bxe5 Kc4 Bxb2 Kb4
Bb3 Kb5 Bf6 c4 Bxc4+ Kxc4 Ke6 Kb5 Bxh4 Bg7) +9.45/36 3} Rb5 5. cxb5+ Kb7
{(Kb7 bxa6+ Kxa6 Bxe7 axb2 Bc2 dxe5 fxe5 cxd4+ Ke4 fxe5 Bd3+ Kb7 Bxg5 Kc7
Bxh4 Kd7 Bf6 Ke6 g5 b3 axb3 Bd2 h4 Bf4 b4 Bg3 h5 Bf4 b5 Kf7 Kf5 Bxg5 Bxg5
b1R Bxb1) -7.17/22 2} 6. bxa6+ Kxa6 7. Bxe7 {(Bxe7) +9.55/34 68} *[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
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Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what if statement

Post by Chessqueen »

Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:23 am Top Engines need to have the what if statement, for instance any GM if it see itself with this losing position with the White side will immediately offer its Bishop located on c2 and place it on a4! giving Check to the Black King, knowing that in such losing position if it does not offer the Bishop it will lose the game, but todays Top Engines are still too materialistic and will never consider giving the White Bishop away, but if a what if statement is included to give material away, and in this case the Bishop, it will immediately find the saving draw.

[d]3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1

I just took Stockfish 13 for instance, but I believe that there is no top engine that will consider giving material away, since they are too materrialistic to save the draw :roll:

FEN: 3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 1 1

Stockfish 13:
6/8 00:00 10k 5,120k -3.78 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Bxa6 gxf4+ Kf3
7/11 00:00 11k 5,372k -3.78 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Bxa6 gxf4+ Kf3 Bxd8 Bxb7+ Kxd4 exf6 axb2
8/18 00:00 45k 7,508k -6.63 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 gxf4+ Kxf4 dxe5+ dxe5 fxe5+ Ke3 Qxa2
9/19 00:00 65k 8,080k -6.18 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2
10/20 00:00 109k 8,419k -6.98 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 exf6 Kxf6 Bd3 Qxa5
11/23 00:00 183k 9,175k -7.01 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bc8+ Kd5 Bb7+ Kxd4
12/21 00:00 203k 9,229k -7.01 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bc8+ Kd5 Bb7+ Kxd4 Bd8 Qb3+ Ke2 Qxh3
13/28 00:00 429k 9,753k -7.12 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bd3 dxe5
14/24 00:00 528k 9,953k -6.86 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 exf6 Qf2+ Kg5 Qxf6+ Kh5 Qxd4 Bxb4 Qh8+ Kg5 Qf6+ Kh5 cxb4
15/31 00:00 1,097k 10,756k -6.75 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 f5+ Kd7 Bxb7 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qe1+ Kf3 Qc3+ Ke2 Qxh3 Bb7 Qxg4+ Bf3 Qxf5 exf6
16/35 00:00 3,742k 11,374k -7.48 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Ke2 Qb2+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 cxd4 exf6 Qxa5 Bc4+ Kxf6 Kd1
17/38 00:00 3,869k 11,346k -7.48 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Ke2 Qb2+ Ke3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa5 Bd3
18/40 00:00 5,371k 11,501k -7.55 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb3+ Ke2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke1 Qg3+ Kd2 Qxh3 Be2 d5
19/42 00:00 6,385k 11,587k -7.59 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke1 Qe3+ Be2 Qc3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Kf1 e6
20/38 00:00 8,263k 11,605k -7.66 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf2 Qf4+ Ke2 Qe5+ Kd3 Qg3+ Kc2 Qg2+ Kb1 Qxh3
21/38 00:00 9,615k 11,585k -7.71 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qf4+ Ke2 Qe5+ Kd3 Qg3+ Kc4 Qxh3 Bc8 e6
22/45 00:01 17,484k 11,774k -7.89 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 Bc8 Qxh3+ Kf2 e6 g5+ Kxg5 Ba6 d5 Ke2
23/51 00:01 21,205k 11,873k -7.97 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Ke1 Qxa5 Bc8+ Kd5 exd6 Kxd6 dxc5+ Qxc5 Bf5 Qe3+ Kd1 Qxh3 Kd2 Qg3 Kc2 h3 Bd3 Qxg4 Kb3 h2
24/41 00:02 30,563k 11,990k -8.12 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Ke3 Qe1+ Kf3 cxd4 exf6 Qe3+ Kg2 Qg3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 d3 Bxd3 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxd3+ Kg2
25/53- 00:03 37,792k 12,024k -8.20 c4+ Kxc4
25/53 00:04 54,266k 12,089k -8.27 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 g5+ Kxg5 Bb5 Qxh3+ Kf2 Kf4 Ba6 Qf3+ Ke1 h3 Bc8 Qc3+ Ke2
26/53- 00:05 69,678k 12,143k -8.36 c4+ Kxc4
26/53- 00:06 73,139k 12,113k -8.44 c4+ Kxc4
26/53- 00:07 88,468k 12,202k -8.56 c4+ Kxc4
26/53 00:07 94,781k 12,239k -8.64 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd1 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Bxb4 Qxb4+ Kf1 Qa3 Bc8 e6 Ke2 Qxh3 Bb7 Qxg4+ Bf3 Qxf3+ Kxf3
27/47+ 00:08 107,499k 12,307k -8.56 c4+
27/47- 00:09 111,357k 12,296k -8.72 c4+ Kxc4
27/47+ 00:09 111,438k 12,296k -8.60 c4+
27/49 00:09 114,731k 12,285k -8.73 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kxf4 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Kd2 Qb2+ Ke1 Qxd4 Bc8+ Kxe5 Bd8 b3 Bxe7 c4 Bf5 Qe3+ Kf1 c3 Bxf6+ Kxf6 Bh7 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qxg4 Bb1
28/49- 00:11 143,436k 12,310k -8.81 c4+ Kxc4
28/49+ 00:11 143,627k 12,308k -8.73 c4+
28/49+ 00:11 143,946k 12,307k -8.61 c4+
28/51 00:12 160,213k 12,335k -8.88 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 d5+ Kd7 Bxa6 dxe5+ Ke3 b1Q Bxa5 Qxa2 Bb5+ Kd6 Bd8 c4 g5 fxg5 Kf3 c3 Bd3 Qxd5+ Ke3 Qg2 Bxe7+ Kxe7 Bf5 Kf6 Bd3 Qxh3+ Ke2
29/37+ 00:13 160,531k 12,334k -8.80 c4+
29/37+ 00:13 160,631k 12,334k -8.72 c4+
29/37+ 00:13 161,255k 12,335k -8.60 c4+
29/42 00:14 182,790k 12,357k -8.93 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kf2 Qh2+ Ke1 Qg1+ Ke2 Qe3+ Kd1 Qxd4+ Kc2 Kxe5 g5 fxg5 Bd8 f3 Bxe7 Qc3+ Kb1 f2 Bf8 Qxh3 Bg7+ Ke4 Ba1 f1Q+ Bxf1 Qxf1+ Kb2 Qf6+ Kb1
30/50+ 00:15 194,859k 12,354k -8.85 c4+
30/50- 00:17 220,423k 12,353k -9.01 c4+ Kxc4
30/50+ 00:18 227,702k 12,382k -8.88 c4+
30/50 00:20 259,868k 12,455k -9.04 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kxf4 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kd3 Qb1+ Ke2 Qe4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Kf2 Qg3+ Ke2 Qxg4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Ke2 Qb2+ Kf3 Qa3+ Kf4 Qxa5
31/47- 00:25 314,533k 12,398k -9.12 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:30 384,691k 12,526k -9.20 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:37 463,584k 12,495k -9.33 c4+ Kxc4
31/49- 00:43 538,831k 12,448k -9.50 c4+ Kxc4
31/55+ 00:47 587,910k 12,430k -9.36 c4+
31/55+ 00:48 598,703k 12,448k -9.03 c4+
31/55 00:52 654,296k 12,557k -8.81 c4+ Kxc4 Bd3+ Kd5 Be4+ Ke6 Bxb7 gxf4+ Kf3 axb2 Bxa6 b1Q Bxa5 Qh1+ Kxf4 Qc1+ Kf3 Qa3+ Ke2 Qxa2+ Kf3 Qd5+ Ke2 Qe4+ Kf1 Qf3+ Ke1 Qe3+ Kf1 Qxh3+ Ke2 Qxg4+ Ke1 Qxd4 exf6 Kxf6 Kf1 Qa1+ Kg2 Qxa5 Bf1 Qa8+ Kg1 b3 Bc4
Also top Engines need to know the the triangulation method which is used by GMs, but at the moment no programmer has implemented it. The triangulation method is very easy, it is used as a sequence of waiting moves to force the opponent to move pieces and eventually capture those pieces like this.
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
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User avatar
mclane
Posts: 18748
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: US of Europe, germany
Full name: Thorsten Czub

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by mclane »

All they need is a plan. But running arround blind is of course more intelligent. At least it wastes more energy.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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tmokonen
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:46 pm
Location: Kelowna
Full name: Tony Mokonen

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by tmokonen »

You have a decent GPU, Pichy? I am curious to see if LC0 can find the fortress.
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Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Chessqueen »

tmokonen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:50 pm You have a decent GPU, Pichy? I am curious to see if LC0 can find the fortress.
I tried with my cousin Ryzen 9, and none of the TOP engines have Found it YET :?:
He got it last week ==> https://www.clxgaming.com/gaming-pc/gms ... gI-f_D_BwE
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
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Jim Logan
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:14 am
Location: Nevada, USA

Re: Top Engines are still too materialistic they need the what is statement

Post by Jim Logan »

Try Crystal 150121, or SugaR AI ICCF 1.90. Both of them solve this quite quickly.
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