Rook & Knight odds estimated rating for top Engines

[Chessqueen]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "13:16:30"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]


1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O O-O 6. c3 d6 7. Bg5 Bg4 8.
b4 Bb6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. Nd2 a5 14. b5
Ne7 15. Nf3 a4 16. d4 a3 17. Bb3 Ng6 18. g3 c6 19. dxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 fxe5
21. Rd1 Bc5 22. Bc4 cxb5 23. Bd5 Rfb8 24. Rb1 Ra5 25. Rb3 Kg7 26. Kf1 Kg6
27. h4 h5 28. Ke2 f5 29. Kf1 f4 30. gxf4 exf4 31. Ke2 f3+ 32. Kxf3 Rf8+ 33.
Kg3 Rxf2 34. Rb1 Rc2 35. e5 Rxc3+ 36. Bf3 dxe5 37. Kg2 Rc2+ 38. Kg3 Rxa2
39. Rc1 Rb2 40. Bxb7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "13:16:30"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]


1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O O-O 6. c3 d6 7. Bg5 Bg4 8.
b4 Bb6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. Nd2 a5 14. b5
Ne7 15. Nf3 a4 16. d4 a3 17. Bb3 Ng6 18. g3 c6 19. dxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 fxe5
21. Rd1 Bc5 22. Bc4 cxb5 23. Bd5 Rfb8 24. Rb1 Ra5 25. Rb3 Kg7 26. Kf1 Kg6
27. h4 h5 28. Ke2 f5 29. Kf1 f4 30. gxf4 exf4 31. Ke2 f3+ 32. Kxf3 Rf8+ 33.
Kg3 Rxf2 34. Rb1 Rc2 35. e5 Rxc3+ 36. Bf3 dxe5 37. Kg2 Rc2+ 38. Kg3 Rxa2
39. Rc1 Rb2 40. Bxb7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

We already know the answer for KomodoDragon2 giving knight odds in blitz, it won or drew about half the games at time limits averaging about 6' +1" against GM Alex Lenderman, who is about 2650 FIDE blitz (higher on chess.com blitz). For rook odds I'm a pretty good match for Dragon2 at blitz, I'll have to play more games to be more precise. My blitz ratings average a bit under 2200 combining FIDE, chess.com, and lichess. Instead of playing at so many different time limits, I suggest we standardize to the most popular increment-based time limits, which are 3' + 2" for blitz and 15' + 10" for Rapid. Those are the time limits used for the FIDE World Championships in those categories as well.

[Chessqueen]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

We already know the answer for KomodoDragon2 giving knight odds in blitz, it won or drew about half the games at time limits averaging about 6' +1" against GM Alex Lenderman, who is about 2650 FIDE blitz (higher on chess.com blitz). For rook odds I'm a pretty good match for Dragon2 at blitz, I'll have to play more games to be more precise. My blitz ratings average a bit under 2200 combining FIDE, chess.com, and lichess. Instead of playing at so many different time limits, I suggest we standardize to the most popular increment-based time limits, which are 3' + 2" for blitz and 15' + 10" for Rapid. Those are the time limits used for the FIDE World Championships in those categories as well.

It is very interesting to notice that most of your odds for humans players between 2550 to 2650 like GM Alex Lenderman with an average time limit of about 6'+1" are offered with Knight Odds, but I have done some testing that prove that by offering the c1 Bishop even if at the start of the evaluation Komodo or Stockfish evaluate the Odss greater with Bishop on c1 than with Knight at b1 after about 12 moves the evaluation benefit more the engine giving the c1 Bishop, but probably you need to do more testing by playing Komodo Dragon2 MCTS versus Zahak 3.0 2415

[lkaufman]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

We already know the answer for KomodoDragon2 giving knight odds in blitz, it won or drew about half the games at time limits averaging about 6' +1" against GM Alex Lenderman, who is about 2650 FIDE blitz (higher on chess.com blitz). For rook odds I'm a pretty good match for Dragon2 at blitz, I'll have to play more games to be more precise. My blitz ratings average a bit under 2200 combining FIDE, chess.com, and lichess. Instead of playing at so many different time limits, I suggest we standardize to the most popular increment-based time limits, which are 3' + 2" for blitz and 15' + 10" for Rapid. Those are the time limits used for the FIDE World Championships in those categories as well.

It is very interesting to notice that most of your odds for humans players between 2550 to 2650 like GM Alex Lenderman with an average time limit of about 6'+1" are offered with Knight Odds, but I have done some testing that prove that by offering the c1 Bishop even if at the start of the evaluation Komodo or Stockfish evaluate the Odss greater with Bishop on c1 than with Knight at b1 after about 12 moves the evaluation benefit more the engine giving the c1 Bishop, but probably you need to do more testing by playing Komodo Dragon2 MCTS versus Zahak 3.0 2415

Aside from whether bishop odds is larger than knight odds, bishop odds does not exist in chess history or literature, while there are hundreds of games at knight odds involving great players (on the White side of course). This is because bishop handicap leads to artificial play where the first player will put most of his pawns on the color of the missing bishop. So it just has much less to do with normal chess than knight odds. I care about chess tradition.

[Chessqueen]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

We already know the answer for KomodoDragon2 giving knight odds in blitz, it won or drew about half the games at time limits averaging about 6' +1" against GM Alex Lenderman, who is about 2650 FIDE blitz (higher on chess.com blitz). For rook odds I'm a pretty good match for Dragon2 at blitz, I'll have to play more games to be more precise. My blitz ratings average a bit under 2200 combining FIDE, chess.com, and lichess. Instead of playing at so many different time limits, I suggest we standardize to the most popular increment-based time limits, which are 3' + 2" for blitz and 15' + 10" for Rapid. Those are the time limits used for the FIDE World Championships in those categories as well.

It is very interesting to notice that most of your odds for humans players between 2550 to 2650 like GM Alex Lenderman with an average time limit of about 6'+1" are offered with Knight Odds, but I have done some testing that prove that by offering the c1 Bishop even if at the start of the evaluation Komodo or Stockfish evaluate the Odss greater with Bishop on c1 than with Knight at b1 after about 12 moves the evaluation benefit more the engine giving the c1 Bishop, but probably you need to do more testing by playing Komodo Dragon2 MCTS versus Zahak 3.0 2415

Aside from whether bishop odds is larger than knight odds, bishop odds does not exist in chess history or literature, while there are hundreds of games at knight odds involving great players (on the White side of course). This is because bishop handicap leads to artificial play where the first player will put most of his pawns on the color of the missing bishop. So it just has much less to do with normal chess than knight odds. I care about chess tradition.

Thanks for explaining how a human can neutralize the the missing bishop with pawns. Now going back to having a mirror Alekhine with Chrisw within a few days, it seems that there is a misunderstanding of who will post the first initial position of the first 2 moves, since Chrisw has NOT yet posted anything since Monday. There has to be some kind of communication like E.T call home to Chrisw

[lkaufman]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "13:16:30"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]


1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O O-O 6. c3 d6 7. Bg5 Bg4 8.
b4 Bb6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. Nd2 a5 14. b5
Ne7 15. Nf3 a4 16. d4 a3 17. Bb3 Ng6 18. g3 c6 19. dxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 fxe5
21. Rd1 Bc5 22. Bc4 cxb5 23. Bd5 Rfb8 24. Rb1 Ra5 25. Rb3 Kg7 26. Kf1 Kg6
27. h4 h5 28. Ke2 f5 29. Kf1 f4 30. gxf4 exf4 31. Ke2 f3+ 32. Kxf3 Rf8+ 33.
Kg3 Rxf2 34. Rb1 Rc2 35. e5 Rxc3+ 36. Bf3 dxe5 37. Kg2 Rc2+ 38. Kg3 Rxa2
39. Rc1 Rb2 40. Bxb7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

I played two games at rook odds against Dragon MCTS, 19 threads, 3' +2" strict, Contempt 150. I drew the first and won the second. I would probably lose at 2' + 1", I do need the time to win. So you probably need to be at least close to 2200 to win at 3' + 2" with rook odds, and over 2600 at knight odds. It shows that rook odds is indeed quite a bit more than knight odds, as it should be (but some people question this).

[Chessqueen]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "13:16:30"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]


1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O O-O 6. c3 d6 7. Bg5 Bg4 8.
b4 Bb6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. Nd2 a5 14. b5
Ne7 15. Nf3 a4 16. d4 a3 17. Bb3 Ng6 18. g3 c6 19. dxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 fxe5
21. Rd1 Bc5 22. Bc4 cxb5 23. Bd5 Rfb8 24. Rb1 Ra5 25. Rb3 Kg7 26. Kf1 Kg6
27. h4 h5 28. Ke2 f5 29. Kf1 f4 30. gxf4 exf4 31. Ke2 f3+ 32. Kxf3 Rf8+ 33.
Kg3 Rxf2 34. Rb1 Rc2 35. e5 Rxc3+ 36. Bf3 dxe5 37. Kg2 Rc2+ 38. Kg3 Rxa2
39. Rc1 Rb2 40. Bxb7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

I played two games at rook odds against Dragon MCTS, 19 threads, 3' +2" strict, Contempt 150. I drew the first and won the second. I would probably lose at 2' + 1", I do need the time to win. So you probably need to be at least close to 2200 to win at 3' + 2" with rook odds, and over 2600 at knight odds. It shows that rook odds is indeed quite a bit more than knight odds, as it should be (but some people question this).

I am ready to take a challenge against Komodo Dragon2 MCTS at Rook Odds while Chriw decides when to start, Komodo Dragon will use 15 Seconds per Move and I will use 45 Seconds per move this is the starting position we will be posting each move here, remember it might take me extra than 45 seconds since I have to post every of Komodo Dragon2 response to my my and once I see you posting it I will post my, since it take me longer to make my move only you every 5 moves can post the diagram here and I will simply write down the move # 5. for instance 5 .e3. Bb4 etc.. tell me when to start, once you start and I see you posting your move for instance 1.e4... immediately I will post my all moves and we will stay here until the game is completed, therefore, it should NOT take more than 1.5 hour at the most.
We can start at 4.00 PM or 4:30 eastern time.
[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1]/fen]

[Chessqueen]

Based on different humans testing if we can find enough people here and they volunteer to play versus Komodo Dragon or Stockfish and submit their games at TC 5'+1" or either 10'+"" we can probably estimate with close to accuracy those two engines rating with Rook and Knight Odds.

I only tested myself against Stockfish 13 Rook Odds at TC 20'+1 since I am NOT that good at playing blitz and I will blunder almost for sure with time control less than 15'+1". For those that have Komodo Dragon1 or Dragon2 they should try testing themselves. According to my online trainer he estimate me to be around 1975 to 2000 after testing me against other of his online students.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "13:16:30"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "79"]


1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O O-O 6. c3 d6 7. Bg5 Bg4 8.
b4 Bb6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Qxf6 gxf6 13. Nd2 a5 14. b5
Ne7 15. Nf3 a4 16. d4 a3 17. Bb3 Ng6 18. g3 c6 19. dxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 fxe5
21. Rd1 Bc5 22. Bc4 cxb5 23. Bd5 Rfb8 24. Rb1 Ra5 25. Rb3 Kg7 26. Kf1 Kg6
27. h4 h5 28. Ke2 f5 29. Kf1 f4 30. gxf4 exf4 31. Ke2 f3+ 32. Kxf3 Rf8+ 33.
Kg3 Rxf2 34. Rb1 Rc2 35. e5 Rxc3+ 36. Bf3 dxe5 37. Kg2 Rc2+ 38. Kg3 Rxa2
39. Rc1 Rb2 40. Bxb7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

I played two games at rook odds against Dragon MCTS, 19 threads, 3' +2" strict, Contempt 150. I drew the first and won the second. I would probably lose at 2' + 1", I do need the time to win. So you probably need to be at least close to 2200 to win at 3' + 2" with rook odds, and over 2600 at knight odds. It shows that rook odds is indeed quite a bit more than knight odds, as it should be (but some people question this).

I am ready to take a challenge against Komodo Dragon2 MCTS at Rook Odds while Chriw decides when to start, Komodo Dragon will use 15 Seconds per Move and I will use 45 Seconds per move this is the starting position we will be posting each move here, remember it might take me extra than 45 seconds since I have to post every of Komodo Dragon2 response to my my and once I see your response, immediately I will post my, since it take me longer to make my moves while i am thinking you can post the diagram here after every 5 moves and I will simply write down my moves one after the other, for instance 5 .Ne5 Bb4 etc.. I will post my all moves and we will stay here until the game is completed, therefore, it should NOT take more than 1 hour and 15 minutes at the most. We can start at 8:00PM eastern time or you tell me when to start !

[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1]/fen]