Ufim 8.02+Mephisto London 030 vs. CCC Forum Chess960

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Steve B
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Ufim 8.02+Mephisto London 030 vs. CCC Forum Chess960

Post by Steve B » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:33 pm

FINAL POSITION and PGN (960 Position 796)

[Event "Friendly Match"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2009.11.12"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Ufim 8.02+Mephisto London 030"]
[Black "CCC Forum"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

Moves 1-10 Played By Ufim
Moves 11-40 Played By Mephisto London 68030

1.c4 c5 2.f4 f5 3.Ng3 g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.b3 Nf6 6.Bxd4 d5 7.c5 Qc6 8.Nf3 Nf7 9.Bd3 Ke8 10.0-0 Nd8
11.e3 Be6 12.Bxf6 Rxf6 13.Qc3 b6 14.Rac1 bxc5 15.Qxc5 Qxc5 16.Rxc5 Bd6 17.Bb5+ Kf8 18.Rc3 Kg7
19.Rd1 a6 20.Be2 Rf8 21.h4 Nb7 22.h5 Nc5 23.hxg6 hxg6 24.Ng5 Bg8 25.Rdc1 Ne6 26.Nxe6 Bxe6
27.Bf3 Bf7 28.Rc6 a5 29.Ne2 a4 30.g4 axb3 31.axb3 Rfb8 32.Nd4 fxg4 33.Bxg4 Ra2 34.R6c2 Rxc2
35.Rxc2 Rb4 36.Kf1 Kf6 37.Bd7 Rb6 38.Ba4 e5 39.fxe5+ Bxe5 40.Nf3 1/2-1/2*

FINAL POSITION

[D]8/5b2/1r3kp1/3pb3/B7/1P2PN2/2R5/5K2 b



There seems to be interest in another Forum Game so this thread will kick off the Discussion

currently the Second Forum Game is still ongoing but the Forum has the Mighty BigLion on the ropes

a third game will commence when the current game is completed assuming there is sufficient interest

my thoughts are for another 960 game of some sort as it gets us out of a book battle and right into the actual play of the game of chess
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:50 pm, edited 97 times in total.

Spock

Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Spock » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:53 pm

Yes I think the chess960 format worked very well indeed

One option is to use a chess960 engine for the initial part of the game and then switch across to one of your dedicated units once castles have been made or the castling opportunities have gone

Or, just play normal ches against one of your dedicated units from an equal starting position (i.e. after a few moves already made), that gets us out of the book battle and straight into the chess

Steve B
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Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Steve B » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:21 pm

Spock wrote:Yes I think the chess960 format worked very well indeed

One option is to use a chess960 engine for the initial part of the game and then switch across to one of your dedicated units once castles have been made or the castling opportunities have gone

Or, just play normal ches against one of your dedicated units from an equal starting position (i.e. after a few moves already made), that gets us out of the book battle and straight into the chess
i have to tell you Ray ..960 is a great form of chess IMHO
never tried it before but as you say it gets right to the meat of the game and away from opening book lines which i freely admit i am sorely out of date on

both ideas are OK with me
i would need to reply on expert opinion here to inform me if a position is truly out of book if we wind up going with your second suggestion
i am told some book lines these days go on for 30 moves or even more
Steve

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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:46 pm

I suggest a Chess960 game against a strong free engine till castling.

Candidates: Stockfish, Hamsters, Tornado, Fruit, Movei, Pharaon, Spike, Ufim.
They are all UCI and all use SMK castling.

(Bright or ShredderGUI had a problem recently).


Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

Spock

Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Spock » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:48 pm

Steve B wrote: i have to tell you Ray ..960 is a great form of chess IMHO
never tried it before but as you say it gets right to the meat of the game and away from opening book lines which i freely admit i am sorely out of date on
Yes, I'm a huge fan of it for those reasons

Steve B wrote: both ideas are OK with me
i would need to reply on expert opinion here to inform me if a position is truly out of book if we wind up going with your second suggestion
i am told some book lines these days go on for 30 moves or even more
Steve
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing - I meant that we use a fen position as the start point for the game. Say a position where each side has played 5-6 moves, the position is about equal, and you disable the book in your dedicated just in case it does find a book move. It would need to be carefully chosen in case the forum would recognize it as part of an incomplete opening theory line

I prefer the chess960 idea but some may not

Spock

Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Spock » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:50 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:I suggest a Chess960 game against a strong free engine till castling.

Candidates: Stockfish, Hamsters, Tornado, Fruit, Movei, Pharaon, Spike, Ufim.
They are all UCI and all use SMK castling.

(Bright or ShredderGUI had a problem recently).


Matthias.
So - chess960 game using an engine from the list above until castling has happened, then switch across to one of Steve's dedicated units ? I like this idea, although the game could go quite a long way until the switchover point

Steve B
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Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Steve B » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:55 pm

Spock wrote: I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing - I meant that we use a fen position as the start point for the game. Say a position where each side has played 5-6 moves, the position is about equal, and you disable the book in your dedicated just in case it does find a book move. It would need to be carefully chosen in case the forum would recognize it as part of an incomplete opening theory line

I prefer the chess960 idea but some may not
yes we are on the same page
what i meant by "Expert opinion" is as you say..a position carefully chosen so its not a position that still has opening book moves to be made ..otherwise any of my models would be outbooked in no time
typically the stronger Dedicated computers have book lines about 20-30 ply deep(10 -15 moves) so after those moves the dedicateds are on their own while there are still many book moves in theory to be played in any given lines
of course the dedicated would have its book turned OFF from the getgo
Steve

Steve B
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Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Steve B » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:07 pm

Spock wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:I suggest a Chess960 game against a strong free engine till castling.

Candidates: Stockfish, Hamsters, Tornado, Fruit, Movei, Pharaon, Spike, Ufim.
They are all UCI and all use SMK castling.

(Bright or ShredderGUI had a problem recently).


Matthias.
So - chess960 game using an engine from the list above until castling has happened, then switch across to one of Steve's dedicated units ? I like this idea, although the game could go quite a long way until the switchover point
sound good to me
personally through i would prefer an engine where the actual engine author is here and participating and breathing over Rays shoulder
we need the extra pressure exerted to give us the edge
:P
J/K Regards
Steve

Spock

Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by Spock » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:09 pm

Steve B wrote: yes we are on the same page
what i meant by "Expert opinion" is as you say..a position carefully chosen so its not a position that still has opening book moves to be made ..otherwise any of my models would be outbooked in no time
Steve
OK, good. The key would be the right carefully chosen position.

Some may prefer this rather than the hybrid chess960 game, but I'm prepared to be surprised - I'm hopeful that the chess960 game was really appreciated by even those that had not played it before.

gerold
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Re: The Third Forum Game

Post by gerold » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:06 am

Spock wrote:
Steve B wrote: yes we are on the same page
what i meant by "Expert opinion" is as you say..a position carefully chosen so its not a position that still has opening book moves to be made ..otherwise any of my models would be outbooked in no time
Steve
OK, good. The key would be the right carefully chosen position.

Some may prefer this rather than the hybrid chess960 game, but I'm prepared to be surprised - I'm hopeful that the chess960 game was really appreciated by even those that had not played it before.
Enjoyed the game. First 960 i have played.
I would prefer 960 to start and switch after awhile to Steve's
unit.
Maybe starting with an engine about the same rating as Steve's machine.

Best.

Gerold.

P.S. I don't care much about starting a game after so many
book moves.
I like to start from opening position. Move number 1.

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