60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

[TimoK]

Hi Sedat,

since both opponentes have to play the same positions with white and black, the test setup is fair from my point of view. Of course it could be that Komodo acts bad in all these kinds of openings (with both colors), but I used the Noomen Opening Suite 2012 for this test. Please note that Jeroen Noomen is one of the best experts in chess openings and I think he chose all the positions wisely.

And there is another thing about this test: Komodo 4 has already played all these positions against the 4 opponents and finished up 2nd place: http://team-oh.de/Computerschach/Clash.htm

Let's see how Komodo 5 will score in the remaining test - there are two thirds of the test still to be played! So it can easily increase its performance in the remaining ~40 games!

Best regards
Timo

[TimoK]

The complete game:
(17) Komodo 5 64-bit - Houdini 2.0c Pro x64
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.e3 Ne4 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.Rc1 c6
10.Qc2 Nd7 11.Be2 Nxc3 12.Qxc3 dxc4 13.Qxc4 e5 14.0-0 Re8 15.Qc2 e4 16.Nd2 Nf6
17.a3 Bd7 18.h3 Nd5 19.Rfe1 Rad8 20.b4 a6 21.Nb3 Bc8 22.Bf1 Rd6
23.Kh2 Rg6 24.Nd2 h5 25.Nc4 Qg5 26.Qb2 Nf6 27.Ne5 Rxe5 28.dxe5 Bxh3 29.Kxh3 Qg4+
30.Kh2 Qh4+ 31.Kg1 Ng4 32.Bc4 Nh2 33.Bxf7+ Kxf7 34.e6+ Ke8 35.Red1 Nf3+
36.Kf1 Qh1+ 37.Ke2 Qxg2 38.Rh1 Rg5 39.Rcd1 Qg4 40.Rhf1 h4 41.a4 h3 42.Rh1 Ne5+ 0-1
Robert

Hi Robert,

these kinds of games are the reason why I'm doing this test with (quite unreasonable) long TCs. It's a pleasure for me to follow those attacks: Looking at the attacking engine how beautiful it places its pieces to start the attack and wondering if the defending engine sees the danger just in time or not.

Well played by Houdini!

Best regards
Timo

[TimoK]

My casual impression is that Komodo is moving much too fast.
[...]
Is there any way to tell (without adding up all the times manually for each game) how much time remained on each clock in each game after say 20 or 30 moves?

Hi Larry,

there is a way to do it. It requires a bit of manual work, but it doesn't need adding up all the times manually. When replaying a game with a GUI (like ChessBase, ShredderClassic), the GUI automatically reduces the clocks by each move-time when moving forward through the played moves. So it can be done quite easily for all games with approx. 15min of manual work.

If you think that it could be worth it, I will do it after all games have been played and give you the results.

Best regards
Timo

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hi Sedat,

since both opponentes have to play the same positions with white and black, the test setup is fair from my point of view. Of course it could be that Komodo acts bad in all these kinds of openings (with both colors), but I used the Noomen Opening Suite 2012 for this test. Please note that Jeroen Noomen is one of the best experts in chess openings and I think he chose all the positions wisely.

And there is another thing about this test: Komodo 4 has already played all these positions against the 4 opponents and finished up 2nd place: http://team-oh.de/Computerschach/Clash.htm

Let's see how Komodo 5 will score in the remaining test - there are two thirds of the test still to be played! So it can easily increase its performance in the remaining ~40 games!

Best regards
Timo

Hello Timo,

I agree totally with you that Jeroen Noomen is very talented and very experienced book maker
And as far as i remember, even Jeroen's book won SCCT III Book Tournament

But however, it seems Noomen Opening Suite 2012 does not suit for Komodo playing style (against Houdini)
I mean, there are such critical openings,where some Engines Elo performance suffer a lot (in that case, even reversed colors do not help)

I really wonder, if you retry the current test (Houdini against Komodo) with Perfect 2012b book,what would be the new Komodo 5 results

Btw, i'd like to thank you for running this interesting tournament...


Best Wishes,
Sedat

[lkaufman]

My casual impression is that Komodo is moving much too fast.
[...]
Is there any way to tell (without adding up all the times manually for each game) how much time remained on each clock in each game after say 20 or 30 moves?

Hi Larry,

there is a way to do it. It requires a bit of manual work, but it doesn't need adding up all the times manually. When replaying a game with a GUI (like ChessBase, ShredderClassic), the GUI automatically reduces the clocks by each move-time when moving forward through the played moves. So it can be done quite easily for all games with approx. 15min of manual work.

If you think that it could be worth it, I will do it after all games have been played and give you the results.

Best regards
Timo

Yes, thank you, it would be quite helpful in determining if we have a problem with this time control. If we discover a serious problem, we can always make a corrected version.

[lkaufman]

Something seems to me wrong with the time management of komodo

game number 20 against houdini.

Komodo used 19 minutes and 37 seconds for 10...Bb7 and got depth 25 and later used only 26 seconds for 11...0-0 and got depth 21.

(20) Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 - Komodo 5 64-bit
Komodo5-Houdini (20.1), 22.07.2012
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 7.Bg2 c6 8.0-0 d5 9.cxd5 0.35/21 2:44 cxd5 0.30/22 1:10 10.Bf4 0.35/23 1:40 Bb7 0.14/25 19:37 11.Ne5 (Qa4+) 0.25/25 0 11...0-0 (Nfd7) 0.07/21 26 12.Rc1 (Rd1) 0.28/23 4:35 12...Ne8 -0.03/21 2:02 13.Nc3 (Qa4) 0.22/22 2:36 13...f6 -0.01/22 1:05 14.Nd3 0.16/22 2:13 Nc6 0.07/24 2:11 15.Qa4 0.15/23 42 g5 (Rc8) 0.02/23 6:34 16.Bd2 0.18/21 3:06 Qd7 -0.01/22 1:16 17.Re1 (f4) 0.12/22 1:54 17...Rd8 -0.03/24 10:59 18.Red1 (Rac1) 0.10/24 4:42 18...Nd6 -0.21/23 1:28 19.e3 0.08/23 1:19 Rc8 -0.22/23 1:07 20.Rac1 0.08/22 4:04 Kh8 (Kg7) -0.21/24 31 21.Bh3 (Be1) 0.08/20 2:22 21...f5 -0.22/21 2:55 22.Bf1 (Bg2) 0.08/21 23 22...Bf6 (Nc4) -0.20/21 5:18 23.Be1 (Bg2) 0.16/20 5:13 23...Rfe8 (Kg8) -0.20/21 2:46 24.Bg2 0.15/19 2:37 Bg7 -0.17/20 2:39 25.b3 (Qc2) 0.11/20 38 25...Bf8 (Qe7) -0.12/21 5:23 26.Rc2 (Qa3) 0.03/20 2:31 26...a6 (Red8) -0.21/23 2:21 27.Qa3 0.14/23 3:59 Nc4 -0.18/25 30 28.Qc1 0.13/24 0 Na3 -0.19/24 1:06 29.Rcd2 (Re2) 0.06/24 1:01 29...Qc7 (Qg7) -0.15/23 1:56 30.Nb1 0.09/22 1:53 Nb5 (Qe7) -0.13/23 1:33 *

Thanks, Uri, that is indeed suspicious. Have you seen other examples of bizarre time allocation?

Larry

[Uri Blass]

Something seems to me wrong with the time management of komodo

game number 20 against houdini.

Komodo used 19 minutes and 37 seconds for 10...Bb7 and got depth 25 and later used only 26 seconds for 11...0-0 and got depth 21.

(20) Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 - Komodo 5 64-bit
Komodo5-Houdini (20.1), 22.07.2012
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 7.Bg2 c6 8.0-0 d5 9.cxd5 0.35/21 2:44 cxd5 0.30/22 1:10 10.Bf4 0.35/23 1:40 Bb7 0.14/25 19:37 11.Ne5 (Qa4+) 0.25/25 0 11...0-0 (Nfd7) 0.07/21 26 12.Rc1 (Rd1) 0.28/23 4:35 12...Ne8 -0.03/21 2:02 13.Nc3 (Qa4) 0.22/22 2:36 13...f6 -0.01/22 1:05 14.Nd3 0.16/22 2:13 Nc6 0.07/24 2:11 15.Qa4 0.15/23 42 g5 (Rc8) 0.02/23 6:34 16.Bd2 0.18/21 3:06 Qd7 -0.01/22 1:16 17.Re1 (f4) 0.12/22 1:54 17...Rd8 -0.03/24 10:59 18.Red1 (Rac1) 0.10/24 4:42 18...Nd6 -0.21/23 1:28 19.e3 0.08/23 1:19 Rc8 -0.22/23 1:07 20.Rac1 0.08/22 4:04 Kh8 (Kg7) -0.21/24 31 21.Bh3 (Be1) 0.08/20 2:22 21...f5 -0.22/21 2:55 22.Bf1 (Bg2) 0.08/21 23 22...Bf6 (Nc4) -0.20/21 5:18 23.Be1 (Bg2) 0.16/20 5:13 23...Rfe8 (Kg8) -0.20/21 2:46 24.Bg2 0.15/19 2:37 Bg7 -0.17/20 2:39 25.b3 (Qc2) 0.11/20 38 25...Bf8 (Qe7) -0.12/21 5:23 26.Rc2 (Qa3) 0.03/20 2:31 26...a6 (Red8) -0.21/23 2:21 27.Qa3 0.14/23 3:59 Nc4 -0.18/25 30 28.Qc1 0.13/24 0 Na3 -0.19/24 1:06 29.Rcd2 (Re2) 0.06/24 1:01 29...Qc7 (Qg7) -0.15/23 1:56 30.Nb1 0.09/22 1:53 Nb5 (Qe7) -0.13/23 1:33 *

Thanks, Uri, that is indeed suspicious. Have you seen other examples of bizarre time allocation?

Larry

No but I did not look at most of the games.

I also got the impression that komodo play too fast from what I looked at in other cases.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Something seems to me wrong with the time management of komodo

game number 20 against houdini.

Komodo used 19 minutes and 37 seconds for 10...Bb7 and got depth 25 and later used only 26 seconds for 11...0-0 and got depth 21.

(20) Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 - Komodo 5 64-bit
Komodo5-Houdini (20.1), 22.07.2012
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 7.Bg2 c6 8.0-0 d5 9.cxd5 0.35/21 2:44 cxd5 0.30/22 1:10 10.Bf4 0.35/23 1:40 Bb7 0.14/25 19:37 11.Ne5 (Qa4+) 0.25/25 0 11...0-0 (Nfd7) 0.07/21 26 12.Rc1 (Rd1) 0.28/23 4:35 12...Ne8 -0.03/21 2:02 13.Nc3 (Qa4) 0.22/22 2:36 13...f6 -0.01/22 1:05 14.Nd3 0.16/22 2:13 Nc6 0.07/24 2:11 15.Qa4 0.15/23 42 g5 (Rc8) 0.02/23 6:34 16.Bd2 0.18/21 3:06 Qd7 -0.01/22 1:16 17.Re1 (f4) 0.12/22 1:54 17...Rd8 -0.03/24 10:59 18.Red1 (Rac1) 0.10/24 4:42 18...Nd6 -0.21/23 1:28 19.e3 0.08/23 1:19 Rc8 -0.22/23 1:07 20.Rac1 0.08/22 4:04 Kh8 (Kg7) -0.21/24 31 21.Bh3 (Be1) 0.08/20 2:22 21...f5 -0.22/21 2:55 22.Bf1 (Bg2) 0.08/21 23 22...Bf6 (Nc4) -0.20/21 5:18 23.Be1 (Bg2) 0.16/20 5:13 23...Rfe8 (Kg8) -0.20/21 2:46 24.Bg2 0.15/19 2:37 Bg7 -0.17/20 2:39 25.b3 (Qc2) 0.11/20 38 25...Bf8 (Qe7) -0.12/21 5:23 26.Rc2 (Qa3) 0.03/20 2:31 26...a6 (Red8) -0.21/23 2:21 27.Qa3 0.14/23 3:59 Nc4 -0.18/25 30 28.Qc1 0.13/24 0 Na3 -0.19/24 1:06 29.Rcd2 (Re2) 0.06/24 1:01 29...Qc7 (Qg7) -0.15/23 1:56 30.Nb1 0.09/22 1:53 Nb5 (Qe7) -0.13/23 1:33 *

Thanks, Uri, that is indeed suspicious. Have you seen other examples of bizarre time allocation?

Larry

No but I did not look at most of the games.

I also got the impression that komodo play too fast from what I looked at in other cases.

I am not sure what can be the reason exactly,but i think the NetChess adapter can be another reason about why Komodo is playing too fast

Because, i noticed during in SCCT testings (via NetChess adapter) that some engines did not play at full performance

Best,
Sedat

[TimoK]

Hi Sedat!

But however, it seems Noomen Opening Suite 2012 does not suit for Komodo playing style (against Houdini)
I mean, there are such critical openings,where some Engines Elo performance suffer a lot (in that case, even reversed colors do not help)

It could indeed be the case that Komodo 5 doesn't like these openings with both colors. But then a lot of things were changed from Komodo 4 to 5 because Komodo 4 scored quite normal in the same test.

I really wonder, if you retry the current test (Houdini against Komodo) with Perfect 2012b book,what would be the new Komodo 5 results

Excellent suggestion! Since the brandnew Perfect 2012b book is not yet available I just downloaded the former version 2012, made two copies, renamed them to Houdini.ctg and Komodo.ctg and started a 60 games match with the same conditions:
http://www.team-oh.de/livegames6/

Btw, i'd like to thank you for running this interesting tournament...

You are welcome! I like your tests (SCCT rating list) and your books also very much!

Best regards
Timo

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hi Sedat!

But however, it seems Noomen Opening Suite 2012 does not suit for Komodo playing style (against Houdini)
I mean, there are such critical openings,where some Engines Elo performance suffer a lot (in that case, even reversed colors do not help)

It could indeed be the case that Komodo 5 doesn't like these openings with both colors. But then a lot of things were changed from Komodo 4 to 5 because Komodo 4 scored quite normal in the same test.

I really wonder, if you retry the current test (Houdini against Komodo) with Perfect 2012b book,what would be the new Komodo 5 results

Excellent suggestion! Since the brandnew Perfect 2012b book is not yet available I just downloaded the former version 2012, made two copies, renamed them to Houdini.ctg and Komodo.ctg and started a 60 games match with the same conditions:
http://www.team-oh.de/livegames6/

Btw, i'd like to thank you for running this interesting tournament...

You are welcome! I like your tests (SCCT rating list) and your books also very much!

Best regards
Timo

Dear Timo,

Nice idea...

But however,if you are interested i can send you my latest Perfect 2012b book

It's much more improved version than Perfect 2012 book

One thing more,
Why you dont use Auto232 player (instead of Netchess adapter) for the current test ?
At least we will have no any suspicious about the engines playing strength

Best Regards,
Sedat