60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

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lkaufman
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:22 pm

I think I know why that move would be made quickly, it is part of our "easy move" algorithm, which is quite complicated. Perhaps turning it off would help in this case, but in general that would lose elo points. I tried a test of turning down our easy move algorithm, but even that lost elo points.

Sedat Canbaz
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:46 pm

Laskos wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:One thing more (for those who does no agree with me),
I just wonder, what is wrong with the current my below statement ???

We need more games...,but as i expected,Komodo is started to show its real power


Really i dont want to loose more time over this issue...

Best,
Sedat
You said that based on the score 3.5:2.5 between two engines separated by no more than 50 Elo points.
I never said that 10 games are enough data or even 300-500 games are not enough data to show the engines real strenght

And i strongly believe in that:
-Minimum 1.000 games per player is required for reliable rating
After I gave you examples of what to do with these numbers, you are coming again with some pretty silly statements.

Kai

Its ok...my statements can be silly for you,no problem !

As far as i remember,(in the past) you was also against my views...it seems you did not changed a lot

And i strongly believe that Perfect 2012 book series are very well optimized, safe and i recommend to be used by Top Chess Programs

Actually i was just trying to explain that WE NEED MORE GAMES and the openings can be serious factor of any engine playing strenght

If you still have different view than mine,then i challenge you to register in Testo Third Book League

Who knows, maybe you are very good Book Maker...and one day i can see you in SCCT Super League Tournament


Best,
Sedat

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M ANSARI
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by M ANSARI » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:19 am

I find it pretty incredible that so much testing is done on single core machines !!! To be honest, I think the testing should wait until Komodo is MP. I really don't like the idea of handicapping all engines simply because Komodo is handicapped with single core. One of the most important aspects of chess engine design is the efficiency of multi core use (scaling), and this will only increase in importance as more and more cores are added. Rybka 3 was a nice improvement over older Rybka's when that happened. I hope that Don gets healthy soon and can implement a super MP implementation in Komodo as it is long overdue. Until then I will wait out all the testing.

Single core testing of chess engines when mobile phones run on 4 cores is or should be obsolete!

Uri Blass
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Uri Blass » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:42 am

M ANSARI wrote:I find it pretty incredible that so much testing is done on single core machines !!! To be honest, I think the testing should wait until Komodo is MP. I really don't like the idea of handicapping all engines simply because Komodo is handicapped with single core. One of the most important aspects of chess engine design is the efficiency of multi core use (scaling), and this will only increase in importance as more and more cores are added. Rybka 3 was a nice improvement over older Rybka's when that happened. I hope that Don gets healthy soon and can implement a super MP implementation in Komodo as it is long overdue. Until then I will wait out all the testing.

Single core testing of chess engines when mobile phones run on 4 cores is or should be obsolete!
I totally disagree.

Single core testing is clearly important otherwise you will never know how much rating different programs earn from parallel search and it may be different for different programs.

It is also possible to use single core for analysis even if you have more than one core because you use the other cores for different analysis tasks.

Sedat Canbaz
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:52 am

M ANSARI wrote:I find it pretty incredible that so much testing is done on single core machines !!! To be honest, I think the testing should wait until Komodo is MP. I really don't like the idea of handicapping all engines simply because Komodo is handicapped with single core. One of the most important aspects of chess engine design is the efficiency of multi core use (scaling), and this will only increase in importance as more and more cores are added. Rybka 3 was a nice improvement over older Rybka's when that happened. I hope that Don gets healthy soon and can implement a super MP implementation in Komodo as it is long overdue. Until then I will wait out all the testing.

Single core testing of chess engines when mobile phones run on 4 cores is or should be obsolete!
Dear Majd,

Actually (as you know),i prefer mainly MP engine testings,instead of 1 core

But Timo's current conditions are completely better than many available 1 core testings

Note also that the current slow time control is 120m+3s,e.g we can see a lot of quality games
That means for two MP engines match,Timo's games are equal in quality and strenght to approx. 20m+3s on i7 980X @4.0GHz machine

Plus,Perfect 2012 book is playing :) this book is a little bit old,(e.g i dont like some of its lines)
but however (as we see) so far,Komodo's performance is not bad:
Image


And I hope a lot,Timo will repeat the previous played matches too



Best Wishes,
Sedat

Jeroen
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Jeroen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:00 am

I have to agree here. Blaming a bad result on an opening testsuite is very silly and amusing at the same time.

Jeroen
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Jeroen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:20 am

This is the first time in my life I am being 'blamed' for a bad intermediate result of a program I am not involved with, because of my test suite. Very funny and amusing at the same time!

Sorry Sedat, but you should know better.....

Sedat Canbaz
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:13 am

Jeroen wrote:This is the first time in my life I am being 'blamed' for a bad intermediate result of a program I am not involved with, because of my test suite. Very funny and amusing at the same time!

Sorry Sedat, but you should know better.....
Hello dear friend Jeroen,

Hmm....i was afraid from that

It seems there are some misunderstandings....
Please check my previous my statements about yours work
To be honest,i did not praise many Top SCCT Book Makers,like i praised yours work

I am really very sorry if you are offended

You know very well, how i have BIG respect to you,you are like my teacher

And please don't be angry to your student,because sometimes we can make still mistakes :)

My goal was just to explain that Komodo's performance is probably suffering due to your openings

I think its too early for any conclusions, without final results


And till your posting,i did not see anything wrong in the the current Timo's test
What is the problem ?,if Timo is currently repeating this time with diffrent openings ?

Why only the engines should be tested ? why we should not try other openings too ?!

Instead of loosing of a good friend,i would preffer to demand from Timo to cansel this test by using Perfect 2012 book

Dear Timo,
I am sorry to all,please cansel this test,i dont want to see Perfect 2012 book in the current test

Thanks in advance...


Best Regards,
Sedat

TimoK
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by TimoK » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:30 am

Sedat Canbaz wrote: Instead of loosing of a good friend,i would preffer to demand from Timo to cansel this test by using Perfect 2012 book

Dear Timo,
I am sorry to all,please cansel this test,i dont want to see Perfect 2012 book in the current test

Thanks in advance...
Sedat, are you serious? You mean after I already played 18 games with your book I should stop the test? I think a lot of people are interested in the games and the results (maybe even Jeroen himself!), so I think cancelling the test would do more harm than playing on. Why do you think it would make a difference to Jeroen if I cancel the test now?

It's quite funny: You wanted the test to have some kind of prove that Komodo performs better with your book instead of using the Noomen Opening Suite 2012. I started the test because I think it will make no difference - book or opening test will deliver nearly the same results. But the thing is that with only 60 games we cannot draw any conclusions about that matter (unless the results will differ like 40-20 for test 1 and 20-40 in test 2). We would have to play 6000 games to have a clue, but that's not possible. So I decided to let it play on just for fun because it will give us at least some very interesting games!

Best regards
Timo

Sedat Canbaz
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Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:00 pm

TimoK wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote: Instead of loosing of a good friend,i would preffer to demand from Timo to cansel this test by using Perfect 2012 book

Dear Timo,
I am sorry to all,please cansel this test,i dont want to see Perfect 2012 book in the current test

Thanks in advance...
Sedat, are you serious? You mean after I already played 18 games with your book I should stop the test? I think a lot of people are interested in the games and the results (maybe even Jeroen himself!), so I think cancelling the test would do more harm than playing on. Why do you think it would make a difference to Jeroen if I cancel the test now?

It's quite funny: You wanted the test to have some kind of prove that Komodo performs better with your book instead of using the Noomen Opening Suite 2012. I started the test because I think it will make no difference - book or opening test will deliver nearly the same results. But the thing is that with only 60 games we cannot draw any conclusions about that matter (unless the results will differ like 40-20 for test 1 and 20-40 in test 2). We would have to play 6000 games to have a clue, but that's not possible. So I decided to let it play on just for fun because it will give us at least some very interesting games!

Best regards
Timo

Dear Timo

Unfortunately yes...the current issue looks a like a little bit funny

I made a such demand from you,just because i have BIG respect to Jeroen Noomen

Actually my goal was not due to prove that my books are stronger than Jeroen's work

I've just thought that Komodo 5 could do better with other openings...

But however,instead of loosing Jeroen...i would prefer to not see Perfect 2012 book in your current test

Btw,you can try others books or different opening positions
And i am quite sure,you can find many other books,where Komodo probably would do even better than Perfect book series

Sorry again to all for this trouble !

Kind Regards,
Sedat

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