3Champs reloaded

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Hugo
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:10 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Hugo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:53 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:So far, with almost perfect openings book, we have 15 white wins and 6 black wins from 52 games. So that, if any tornament organizer gets distinctly different ratio of white/black wins, there certainly should be something wrong with the book. I.e., having equality of white/black wins, not to mention black wins being more than white, should be considered unnatural.
Hi Lyudmil

This book is far away from giving perfect lines. There have been some losses right out of book. I hope it is "fair" at the end to every engine.
Also during the tournamenrt I changed weights in book to get more diversity in the openings.
Thank you for your interests
Best regards, Clemens

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:14 am

Hugo wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:So far, with almost perfect openings book, we have 15 white wins and 6 black wins from 52 games. So that, if any tornament organizer gets distinctly different ratio of white/black wins, there certainly should be something wrong with the book. I.e., having equality of white/black wins, not to mention black wins being more than white, should be considered unnatural.
Hi Lyudmil

This book is far away from giving perfect lines. There have been some losses right out of book. I hope it is "fair" at the end to every engine.
Also during the tournamenrt I changed weights in book to get more diversity in the openings.
Thank you for your interests
Best regards, Clemens
Hi Clemens.
To me the book used in this edition of the 3Champs seems excellent, at least until game 38, to where I checked the games.

Thanks for the effort, I especially like the setup. My wish for a next edition would be to use 24 cores ponder off instead of 12 ponder on.

Hugo
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:10 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Hugo » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:46 am

Hi All

this weekend I will focus the book to play Najdorf variants.

regards, Clemens Keck


Hugo wrote:Hi all computerchess enthusiasts

for the honor to Don Dailey

4 days ago I started a new run of my 3Champs Tournament.
This time the 3 participants are running on a 24core machine, using 12cpu:

Round Robin Tournament 90min +15 sec, 50rounds, 150 games
Ponder = ON
engine = 12 cpu
hashtables = 4 GB
learning = OFF
hyperthreading = OFF
large pages = OFF
tablebases (engine) = OFF
tablebases GUI = ON ( small set 80GB)
opening book = Fritz 14 (5moves), mode "normal", no reversed color games
hardware = Intel E5-2697 v2 @ 3.00 GHz (turboMode)

Engines:

Houdini 4.0 pro, split depth 12
Stockfish 241113, sleeping threads idle ON, min split depth 7
Komodo 1142

livegames : http://www.clemens-keck.de/livegames/

ReplayZone : http://www.clemens-keck.de/ReplayZone/3champs2013.htm

This tour will take a while. I think 4 - 5 weeks.

regards, Clemens Keck

PS.: congratulations to Komodo 1142 for winning the grand TCEC !!

ouachita
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Ritz-Carlton, NYC
Full name: Bobby Johnson

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by ouachita » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:38 pm

Clemens - what is the average game length?
SIM, PhD, MBA, PE

Hugo
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:10 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Hugo » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:21 pm

ouachita wrote:Clemens - what is the average game length?
hello Bobby

http://www.clemens-keck.de/livegames/games.pgn
here you can find the always updated pgn file.
Also on the replay zone is a pgn file at the end.
So you can find the average game length and other statistics .
Right now its 65 moves

Have a nice WeekEnd

Clemens

Hugo
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:10 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Hugo » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:16 pm

Hi All

this weekend I will focus the book to play Najdorf variants.

regards, Clemens Keck
What was this? Quick loss in the endgame...
[pgn]
[Event "3Champs2013"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2013.12.07"]
[Round "23.1"]
[White "Houdini 4 Pro x64 x12"]
[Black "Stockfish 241113 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B92"]
[Annotator "0.23;0.14"]
[PlyCount "170"]
[EventDate "2013.11.28"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[Source "Doe"]
[TimeControl "5400+15"]

{Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2697 v2 @ 2.70GHz 2699 MHz W=27.4 plies; 20.178kN/s;
Fritz 14.ctg B=37.9 plies; 13.747kN/s; Fritz 14.ctg} 1. e4 {B/0 0} c5 {B/0 0}
2. Nf3 {B/0 0} d6 {B/0 0} 3. d4 {B/0 0} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {B/0 0
} 5. Nc3 {B/0 0} a6 {B/0 0} 6. Be2 {0.23/28 758} e5 {0.14/32 124} 7. Nb3 {
0.21/28 6} Be6 {(Be7) 0.22/33 114} 8. f4 {(Qd3) 0.13/28 193} Be7 {0.08/31 88}
9. O-O {(f5) 0.12/28 266} O-O {0.16/32 226} 10. Kh1 {0.15/28 0} Re8 {
(Bd7) 0.22/34 675} 11. f5 {(Be3) 0.21/27 101} Bd7 {0.00/30 76} 12. Bf3 {
0.11/28 84} Bc6 {0.00/34 355} 13. a4 {(g4) 0.09/31 0} b5 {(b6) 0.00/37 139} 14.
Bg5 {0.10/27 75} bxa4 {-0.08/37 40} 15. Bxf6 {0.01/29 120} Bxf6 {0.00/37 0} 16.
Nxa4 {0.05/29 104} Be7 {(Qc7) 0.00/38 0} 17. Nc3 {0.11/28 93} a5 {-0.08/38 29}
18. Nd5 {(Nd2) 0.05/27 144} Bf8 {-0.22/32 95} 19. Nd2 {0.03/27 298} Bxd5 {
-0.16/36 1} 20. exd5 {0.04/25 30} Nd7 {-0.18/36 98} 21. Ne4 {0.09/27 43} Qc7 {
(Be7) -0.08/33 69} 22. b3 {0.07/26 164} Be7 {(Reb8) -0.18/35 225} 23. Ra4 {
(Qd2) 0.21/27 126} Rec8 {(Nb6) -0.08/37 448} 24. Rc4 {0.10/27 86} Qb8 {
(Qa7) 0.00/36 14} 25. Rc6 {0.20/25 55} Nf6 {(a4) 0.00/35 93} 26. c4 {
0.21/27 146} Nxe4 {(Qb4) 0.00/38 0} 27. Bxe4 {0.37/27 81} Bf6 {0.00/40 6} 28.
g3 {(Qc2) 0.26/28 178} Qb4 {0.00/40 81} 29. Re1 {(Qc2) 0.29/28 74} Rd8 {
(Rab8) 0.00/37 97} 30. Bc2 {0.28/27 51} Rac8 {(Qb7) 0.00/41 69} 31. Qe2 {
(Ra6) 0.35/28 85} Bg5 {(h5) 0.00/33 94} 32. h4 {(Kg2) 0.44/28 53} Bf6 {
0.00/35 81} 33. Kg2 {0.44/30 0} Rb8 {0.00/39 84} 34. Qe3 {0.39/30 0} Qa3 {
0.00/41 78} 35. Qd2 {(Rc7) 0.39/29 9} Qb2 {0.00/39 117} 36. Re2 {0.39/28 1} Qa3
{0.00/39 76} 37. Qd3 {(Qe3) 0.38/30 0} h6 {0.00/40 73} 38. Qe4 {(Qe3) 0.38/29 0
} Rb4 {(Rd7) 0.00/40 82} 39. Re3 {(Qe3) 0.36/28 53} Rbb8 {(Rb7) 0.00/43 71} 40.
Re1 {(Re2) 0.36/29 61} Qb2 {0.00/43 84} 41. Kh3 {(Re2) 0.36/31 0} Qa2 {
(Qc3) 0.00/41 71} 42. Rb1 {(Re2) 0.36/28 48} Qa3 {0.00/40 77} 43. Kg4 {
(Re1) 0.13/28 337} Qa2 {(Rb4) 0.00/45 64} 44. Re1 {(Kh3) 0.40/26 43} Qa3 {
(Rb4) 0.00/40 161} 45. Re2 {(Kh3) 0.38/28 42} Qa2 {(Qb4) 0.00/42 73} 46. Kh3 {
0.38/28 49} Qa3 {0.00/45 44} 47. Kh2 {(Kg2) 0.38/29 0} Qb4 {(Qb2) 0.00/43 75}
48. Kg2 {0.37/27 44} Rb7 {(Qa3) 0.00/41 48} 49. Re1 {0.35/27 89} Qc3 {
(Rdb8) 0.00/45 0} 50. Re3 {(Re2) 0.35/28 61} Qb2 {(Qb4) 0.00/42 68} 51. Re2 {
0.35/29 47} Qa1 {(Qa2) 0.00/41 26} 52. Qf3 {(Qe3) 0.35/28 60} Rbb8 {
(Qa3) 0.00/41 76} 53. Qe3 {(Qe4) 0.35/27 80} Qa3 {0.00/40 60} 54. Kh3 {
(Qa7) 0.35/28 0} Re8 {(Rb7) 0.00/39 65} 55. Qd3 {(Kg2) 0.35/26 38} Red8 {
0.00/38 56} 56. Qd2 {(Qe3) 0.35/27 9} Rb4 {(Rb7) 0.00/38 62} 57. Re1 {
(Kh2) 0.36/27 39} Qa2 {0.00/37 54} 58. Re3 {(Re2) 0.35/28 0} Qb2 {
(Rdb8) 0.00/36 47} 59. Qd1 {(Re2) 0.35/28 54} Qa2 {0.00/39 68} 60. Qd3 {
(Qd2) 0.34/27 28} Qb2 {0.00/41 54} 61. Re1 {(Qd1) 0.31/28 20} Rbb8 {
(Qa2) 0.00/38 51} 62. Kg2 {(Re2) 0.31/27 47} Qa2 {0.00/40 42} 63. Re4 {
(Re2) 0.31/28 21} Rb4 {0.00/36 75} 64. Re2 {0.31/29 0} Qa3 {0.00/40 40} 65. Qf3
{(Qe3) 0.31/26 0} Rbb8 {(Rb7) 0.00/38 43} 66. Qe3 {(Qd3) 0.29/27 47} Rdc8 {
(Rb4) 0.00/39 62} 67. Re1 {(Rxc8+) 0.29/28 57} Qa2 {0.00/36 47} 68. Qe4 {
(Qd3) 0.29/28 0} Rd8 {0.00/40 41} 69. Kh3 {(Re2) 0.27/27 54} Rd7 {
(Qa3) 0.00/37 41} 70. Qd3 {(Re2) 0.28/26 63} Rdb7 {(Rdd8) 0.00/35 49} 71. Re3 {
0.28/27 33} Rd8 {(Rb6) 0.00/37 9} 72. Ra6 {(Re1) 0.27/27 73} Qa3 {
(Rbb8) 0.00/37 42} 73. Qd2 {0.32/25 52} Rb4 {0.00/40 0} 74. Bd1 {
(Re1) 0.28/26 53} Kh7 {(Rc8) 0.00/36 36} 75. Qc3 {(Kg2) 0.27/26 52} Kg8 {
0.00/39 37} 76. Qe1 {(Qd2) 0.26/26 3} a4 {(Kh8) 0.00/36 39} 77. bxa4 {
0.34/27 49} Qb2 {(Qc1) 0.00/38 0} 78. Rc6 {(Re2) 0.20/25 123} Rdb8 {0.00/33 44}
79. Rxd6 {-0.17/26 166} Qa1 {-1.15/37 0} 80. Rd3 {(Bc2) -1.33/24 185} Rb3 {
-3.01/33 37} 81. Rd2 {-2.03/25 45} Rb2 {-3.45/37 0} 82. a5 {(Rxf6) -2.02/26 38}
Rxd2 {-8.04/36 34} 83. Qxd2 {-7.55/25 41} Rb2 {-9.79/38 0} 84. Qd3 {-7.70/26 34
} e4 {-18.12/34 12} 85. Qxe4 {-13.12/28 156} Qxd1 {-86.79/47 0} 0-1

[/pgn]

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:47 pm

Hugo wrote:
Hi All

this weekend I will focus the book to play Najdorf variants.

regards, Clemens Keck
What was this? Quick loss in the endgame...
[pgn]
[Event "3Champs2013"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2013.12.07"]
[Round "23.1"]
[White "Houdini 4 Pro x64 x12"]
[Black "Stockfish 241113 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B92"]
[Annotator "0.23;0.14"]
[PlyCount "170"]
[EventDate "2013.11.28"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[Source "Doe"]
[TimeControl "5400+15"]

{Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2697 v2 @ 2.70GHz 2699 MHz W=27.4 plies; 20.178kN/s;
Fritz 14.ctg B=37.9 plies; 13.747kN/s; Fritz 14.ctg} 1. e4 {B/0 0} c5 {B/0 0}
2. Nf3 {B/0 0} d6 {B/0 0} 3. d4 {B/0 0} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {B/0 0
} 5. Nc3 {B/0 0} a6 {B/0 0} 6. Be2 {0.23/28 758} e5 {0.14/32 124} 7. Nb3 {
0.21/28 6} Be6 {(Be7) 0.22/33 114} 8. f4 {(Qd3) 0.13/28 193} Be7 {0.08/31 88}
9. O-O {(f5) 0.12/28 266} O-O {0.16/32 226} 10. Kh1 {0.15/28 0} Re8 {
(Bd7) 0.22/34 675} 11. f5 {(Be3) 0.21/27 101} Bd7 {0.00/30 76} 12. Bf3 {
0.11/28 84} Bc6 {0.00/34 355} 13. a4 {(g4) 0.09/31 0} b5 {(b6) 0.00/37 139} 14.
Bg5 {0.10/27 75} bxa4 {-0.08/37 40} 15. Bxf6 {0.01/29 120} Bxf6 {0.00/37 0} 16.
Nxa4 {0.05/29 104} Be7 {(Qc7) 0.00/38 0} 17. Nc3 {0.11/28 93} a5 {-0.08/38 29}
18. Nd5 {(Nd2) 0.05/27 144} Bf8 {-0.22/32 95} 19. Nd2 {0.03/27 298} Bxd5 {
-0.16/36 1} 20. exd5 {0.04/25 30} Nd7 {-0.18/36 98} 21. Ne4 {0.09/27 43} Qc7 {
(Be7) -0.08/33 69} 22. b3 {0.07/26 164} Be7 {(Reb8) -0.18/35 225} 23. Ra4 {
(Qd2) 0.21/27 126} Rec8 {(Nb6) -0.08/37 448} 24. Rc4 {0.10/27 86} Qb8 {
(Qa7) 0.00/36 14} 25. Rc6 {0.20/25 55} Nf6 {(a4) 0.00/35 93} 26. c4 {
0.21/27 146} Nxe4 {(Qb4) 0.00/38 0} 27. Bxe4 {0.37/27 81} Bf6 {0.00/40 6} 28.
g3 {(Qc2) 0.26/28 178} Qb4 {0.00/40 81} 29. Re1 {(Qc2) 0.29/28 74} Rd8 {
(Rab8) 0.00/37 97} 30. Bc2 {0.28/27 51} Rac8 {(Qb7) 0.00/41 69} 31. Qe2 {
(Ra6) 0.35/28 85} Bg5 {(h5) 0.00/33 94} 32. h4 {(Kg2) 0.44/28 53} Bf6 {
0.00/35 81} 33. Kg2 {0.44/30 0} Rb8 {0.00/39 84} 34. Qe3 {0.39/30 0} Qa3 {
0.00/41 78} 35. Qd2 {(Rc7) 0.39/29 9} Qb2 {0.00/39 117} 36. Re2 {0.39/28 1} Qa3
{0.00/39 76} 37. Qd3 {(Qe3) 0.38/30 0} h6 {0.00/40 73} 38. Qe4 {(Qe3) 0.38/29 0
} Rb4 {(Rd7) 0.00/40 82} 39. Re3 {(Qe3) 0.36/28 53} Rbb8 {(Rb7) 0.00/43 71} 40.
Re1 {(Re2) 0.36/29 61} Qb2 {0.00/43 84} 41. Kh3 {(Re2) 0.36/31 0} Qa2 {
(Qc3) 0.00/41 71} 42. Rb1 {(Re2) 0.36/28 48} Qa3 {0.00/40 77} 43. Kg4 {
(Re1) 0.13/28 337} Qa2 {(Rb4) 0.00/45 64} 44. Re1 {(Kh3) 0.40/26 43} Qa3 {
(Rb4) 0.00/40 161} 45. Re2 {(Kh3) 0.38/28 42} Qa2 {(Qb4) 0.00/42 73} 46. Kh3 {
0.38/28 49} Qa3 {0.00/45 44} 47. Kh2 {(Kg2) 0.38/29 0} Qb4 {(Qb2) 0.00/43 75}
48. Kg2 {0.37/27 44} Rb7 {(Qa3) 0.00/41 48} 49. Re1 {0.35/27 89} Qc3 {
(Rdb8) 0.00/45 0} 50. Re3 {(Re2) 0.35/28 61} Qb2 {(Qb4) 0.00/42 68} 51. Re2 {
0.35/29 47} Qa1 {(Qa2) 0.00/41 26} 52. Qf3 {(Qe3) 0.35/28 60} Rbb8 {
(Qa3) 0.00/41 76} 53. Qe3 {(Qe4) 0.35/27 80} Qa3 {0.00/40 60} 54. Kh3 {
(Qa7) 0.35/28 0} Re8 {(Rb7) 0.00/39 65} 55. Qd3 {(Kg2) 0.35/26 38} Red8 {
0.00/38 56} 56. Qd2 {(Qe3) 0.35/27 9} Rb4 {(Rb7) 0.00/38 62} 57. Re1 {
(Kh2) 0.36/27 39} Qa2 {0.00/37 54} 58. Re3 {(Re2) 0.35/28 0} Qb2 {
(Rdb8) 0.00/36 47} 59. Qd1 {(Re2) 0.35/28 54} Qa2 {0.00/39 68} 60. Qd3 {
(Qd2) 0.34/27 28} Qb2 {0.00/41 54} 61. Re1 {(Qd1) 0.31/28 20} Rbb8 {
(Qa2) 0.00/38 51} 62. Kg2 {(Re2) 0.31/27 47} Qa2 {0.00/40 42} 63. Re4 {
(Re2) 0.31/28 21} Rb4 {0.00/36 75} 64. Re2 {0.31/29 0} Qa3 {0.00/40 40} 65. Qf3
{(Qe3) 0.31/26 0} Rbb8 {(Rb7) 0.00/38 43} 66. Qe3 {(Qd3) 0.29/27 47} Rdc8 {
(Rb4) 0.00/39 62} 67. Re1 {(Rxc8+) 0.29/28 57} Qa2 {0.00/36 47} 68. Qe4 {
(Qd3) 0.29/28 0} Rd8 {0.00/40 41} 69. Kh3 {(Re2) 0.27/27 54} Rd7 {
(Qa3) 0.00/37 41} 70. Qd3 {(Re2) 0.28/26 63} Rdb7 {(Rdd8) 0.00/35 49} 71. Re3 {
0.28/27 33} Rd8 {(Rb6) 0.00/37 9} 72. Ra6 {(Re1) 0.27/27 73} Qa3 {
(Rbb8) 0.00/37 42} 73. Qd2 {0.32/25 52} Rb4 {0.00/40 0} 74. Bd1 {
(Re1) 0.28/26 53} Kh7 {(Rc8) 0.00/36 36} 75. Qc3 {(Kg2) 0.27/26 52} Kg8 {
0.00/39 37} 76. Qe1 {(Qd2) 0.26/26 3} a4 {(Kh8) 0.00/36 39} 77. bxa4 {
0.34/27 49} Qb2 {(Qc1) 0.00/38 0} 78. Rc6 {(Re2) 0.20/25 123} Rdb8 {0.00/33 44}
79. Rxd6 {-0.17/26 166} Qa1 {-1.15/37 0} 80. Rd3 {(Bc2) -1.33/24 185} Rb3 {
-3.01/33 37} 81. Rd2 {-2.03/25 45} Rb2 {-3.45/37 0} 82. a5 {(Rxf6) -2.02/26 38}
Rxd2 {-8.04/36 34} 83. Qxd2 {-7.55/25 41} Rb2 {-9.79/38 0} 84. Qd3 {-7.70/26 34
} e4 {-18.12/34 12} 85. Qxe4 {-13.12/28 156} Qxd1 {-86.79/47 0} 0-1

[/pgn]
That was 20 meaningful moves, a lot of shuffling, intuitive a4 breakthrough with a 0.0 score and possibly decisive influence of bigger depth. 8-)

ouachita
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Ritz-Carlton, NYC
Full name: Bobby Johnson

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by ouachita » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:15 am

Graham Banks wrote:12 cores ponder on (with no hyperthreading rubbish) is possibly the highest quality tournament that a tester has posted here.
Ponder On would seem to make a lot of sense, yet doesn't seem to have a big following. Why not?
SIM, PhD, MBA, PE

User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 34108
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Graham Banks » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:14 am

ouachita wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:12 cores ponder on (with no hyperthreading rubbish) is possibly the highest quality tournament that a tester has posted here.
Ponder On would seem to make a lot of sense, yet doesn't seem to have a big following. Why not?
Larry and others have posted recently regarding this.

Only thing I can add is that ratings for ponder on lists and ponder off lists show that the ratings of engines relative to each other are very similar.
Therefore it seems to be a waste of resources in the eyes of most testers, as you can run twice as many ponder off games.

However, I don't mind either way. It's whatever gives the person running them the most enjoyment that counts.
gbanksnz at gmail.com

Hugo
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:10 am

Re: 3Champs reloaded

Post by Hugo » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:16 am

ouachita wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:12 cores ponder on (with no hyperthreading rubbish) is possibly the highest quality tournament that a tester has posted here.
Ponder On would seem to make a lot of sense, yet doesn't seem to have a big following. Why not?
I like ponder ON . Its more "tournament atmosphere" than ponder off to me.
And I see that we are still in a region with cores for engines that is not "normal" anymore :D
16 cores seems to become quite normal... 24 cores will be next.
I think having more than 8 cores per engine does not realy affect the engine performance massively. It's more that it is intresting to see astronomic kNs.
IN this thread, there was right now very less about the games at all even there have been a lot of very intresting wins. :-P
Most was about setup or the hardware or so ....

C.K.

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