The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:08 pm

I just downloaded the latest Stockfish DD (waited for the download traffic to ease off) and, to my greatest surprise won a game on the very first day of sparring. I thought Stockfish got much since version 4 better, but maybe it just got marginally better. :) Well, this was just on a funny note. Seriously, I really think Stockfish has improved, it has deeper understanding of closed positions, but obviously this does not make it immune to defeat.

Below the game (or otherwise the Doomsday, DD of Stockfish DD):

[pgn][PlyCount "85"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.12.04"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish DD 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A00"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "42"]
[MLFlags "100100"]

{512MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. e3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... e5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 2. d3
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 2... d5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 4. Be2 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 4... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 5. O-O
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 5... Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6... a6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 7. e4 {[%emt 0:00: 01]} 7... d4 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 8. Nb1
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 8... O-O {[%emt 0:00:04]} 9. h3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 9... Na5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 10. Kh1 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 10... c5 {[%emt 0:00: 03]} 11. c4
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 11... h6 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 12. b3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 12... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 13. Ng1 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 13... Ne7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 14. g3
{[%emt 0: 00:02]} 14... b6 {[%emt 0:00:19]} 15. Bf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 15... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 16. Bg2 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 16... Be6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 17. f4
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 17... Bd7 {[%emt 0: 00:08]} 18. f5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 18... b5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 19. Nd2 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 19... Rb8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 20. g4
{[%emt 0:00:11]} 20... Nb4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 21. Qe2 {[%emt 0:00:42]} 21... Qa5
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 22. h4 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 22... Nc2 {[%emt 0:00: 02]} 23. g5
{[%emt 0:00:11]} 23... hxg5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 24. hxg5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 24... Ne8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 25. Rb1 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 25... Ne3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 26. Rf3
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 26... Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 27. Rg3 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 27... g6
{[%emt 0:00: 02]} 28. f6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 28... Nc7 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 29. Bh3
{[%emt 0:00:18]} 29... Ne6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 30. Bxe6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 30... Bxe6
{[%emt 0:00:00]} 31. Nf1 {[%emt 0:00:25]} 31... Nxf1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 32. Qxf1
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 32... bxc4 {[%emt 0: 00:02]} 33. Rb2 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 33...
cxd3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 34. Rh2 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 34... Qc8 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 35.
Qg2 {[%emt 0:00:38]} 35... Qc6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 36. Rh4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 36...
Be7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 37. Qh2 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 37... Qxe4+ {[%emt 0: 00:00]} 38.
Rxe4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 38... Rfe8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 39. Rh4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 39...
Bd5+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 40. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 40... Bxf3+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41.
Rxf3 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 41... Bxf6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 42. gxf6 {[%emt 0:00:02]}
42... d2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 43. Rh8# {[%emt 0:00:07]} 1-0
[/pgn]

And some highlights.

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2ppp/8/3pp3/8/3PP3/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 3
The type of opening you need against Stockfish to win.

[d]r2q1rk1/5pp1/ppnbbn1p/2p1p3/2PpPP2/1P1P2PP/P5B1/RNBQ1RNK b - - 0 17
Whoever attacks first will usually win.

[d]1r3rk1/3b1pp1/p2b1n1p/qpp1pPP1/2PpP2P/1P1P4/P1nNQ1B1/R1B2RNK b - - 0 23
This is a position where every single move counts. Stockfish opens the h file and does not accept the rook sacrifice, but it is not clear if this is the right way to proceed.

[d]1r1q1rk1/3b1p2/p2bnPp1/1pp1p1P1/2PpP3/1P1Pn1RB/P2NQ3/1RB3NK w - - 0 30
This is already won for white, but I do not know if Stockfish sees it. What is most important is the open h file, which Stock somehow frequently underestimates. The h file with short castled enemy king is easiest of all to open because only the g pawn stops the enemy attack, and controlling it should be a bigger asset than usual.

[d]1r1q1rk1/5p2/p2bbPp1/2p1p1P1/2ppP3/1P1P2R1/P7/1RB2QNK w - - 0 33
Stockfish has just captured bc4. Here Rb2 wins easily of course.

[d]1r2r1kR/5p2/p4Pp1/2p1p3/3p4/1P3R2/P2p3Q/2B4K b - - 0 43
Stockfish is almost ready to promote a queen.:)

Well, why I posted that game? I do not know. Maybe just as a reference to those who would claim the current top engines have reached a climax and there is no going further. That is simply not so. Modern top engines play astounding chess, but they are still not immune to defeat. I think, just in terms of software, at least some 300 more elo points could still be gained, as chess is extremely rich.

On such a freezing December day, on a slightly optimistic note, I also think that not everything is lost for humans, and, Carlsen for example, after a couple of years' training at anticomputer strategy, could calmly challenge any of the top engines.

So much so. 1 win with a fair portion of draws (and many losses unfortunately...) per day, that will make 365 wins per year, not so bad after all for me.

I would like once again to thank Marco, Joerg, Gary, Reuven, Tord of course, and everyone else involved in the creation of a splendid and completely free chess engine! Stockfish is really great, it plays superb attacking and tactical chess, a precious stone in each chess enthusiast's collection.

Best, Lyudmil

overlord
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:46 pm
Location: Trinec, Czech Republic

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by overlord » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Thanks for the game, Lyudmil. Nice example how exploit engines weak points :)

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9772
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:22 pm

Nice anti-computer strategy gameplay :D

I prefer to beat them using my well stumbled opening lines regards,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:08 pm

Now that I won my first game against Stockfish DD, it seems that there is no stopping now...I will post 2 more games I just won, but first let me explain why I am very much favoured by the playing conditions:

- I know well my opponent, Stockfish does not know me
- I use some special opening lines which Stockfish usually sometimes mishandles
- I give myself some more time, usually playing fast, but not when having an advantage and under the threat to spoil everything because of a single tactical mistake

So that playing conditions are not fully fair. On the other hand, Stockfish uses 4 cores, and ponder is on, which I do not know if is some kind of compensation or not.

And of course, I should not forget to say that I am currently posting only the games I won; I think this is more interesting as a message, because everyone knows how Stockfish mauls everyone around. But I know this is not very fair to Stockfish, and I promise to post sometime some nice Stockfish winning games, which of course abound. I am sure the Stockfish developers will not be angry.

The 2 games:

[pgn][PlyCount "85"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.12.04"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish DD 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "42"]
[MLFlags "100100"]

{512MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. f4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 2.
Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 2... d5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3... e6
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 4. e3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 4... c5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 5. c3
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 5... Nc6 {[%emt 0: 00:05]} 6. Bd3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6... Bd6
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 7. O-O {[%emt 0:00:02]} 7... O-O {[%emt 0:00:02]} 8. Ne5
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 8... Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 9. Nd2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 9... b6
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 10. g4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 10... g6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 11. g5
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 11... Nd7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 12. Rf3 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 12... Bb7
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 13. Rh3 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 13... Be7 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 14. Qg4
{[%emt 0: 00:03]} 14... Ncxe5 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 15. fxe5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 15...
Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 16. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 16... Qc8 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 17. Rh6
{[%emt 0:00:17]} 17... Re8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 18. Qh4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 18... Nf8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 19. Bd2 {[%emt 0: 00:13]} 19... Ba6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 20. Bc2
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 20... Be2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 21. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 21... Qa6
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 22. Rg1 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 22... Bc4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 23. Rg3
{[%emt 0:00:10]} 23... Bf1 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 24. Rg1 {[%emt 0:00:50]} 24... Qe2+
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 25. Kg3 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 25... Rec8 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 26. h3
{[%emt 0:00:14]} 26... Bd8 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 27. Kf4 {[%emt 0:00:39]} 27... Qa6
{[%emt 0:00: 06]} 28. Qf2 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 28... Bc4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 29. Nh2
{[%emt 0:00:11]} 29... Bd3 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 30. Bd1 {[%emt 0:00:38]} 30... Qxa2
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 31. Ng4 {[%emt 0:00:35]} 31... Qxb2 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 32. Nf6+
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 32... Bxf6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 33. exf6 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 33... a5
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 34. Rg2 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 34... a4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Qh4
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 35... Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 36. Rxh7+ {[%emt 0:00:48]} 36...
Nxh7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 37. Qh6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 37... e5+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 38.
dxe5 {[%emt 0:00:38]} 38... Rg8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 39. Rg4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 39...
Be2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 40. Bxe2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 40... Qb4+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41.
cxb4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 41... a3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 42. Qxh7+ {[%emt 0:00:03]} 42...
Kxh7 {[%emt 0: 00:00]} 43. Rh4# {[%emt 0:00:02]} 1-0

[PlyCount "101"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.12.04"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish DD 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "50"]
[MLFlags "000100"]

{512MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. f4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 2.
Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 2... d5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 3... e6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 4. e3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 4... c5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 5. c3
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 5... Be7 {[%emt 0: 00:09]} 6. Bd3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 6... O-O
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 7. O-O {[%emt 0:00:02]} 7... c4 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 8. Bc2
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 8... b5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 9. a3 {[%emt 0:00: 02]} 9... Bb7
{[%emt 0:00:14]} 10. Ne5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 10... Nc6 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 11. Nd2
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 11... Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 12. Qf3 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 12... Rc8
{[%emt 0:00: 09]} 13. g4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 13... a5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 14. Rf2
{[%emt 0:00:27]} 14... b4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 15. Rg2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 15... b3
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 16. Bb1 {[%emt 0: 00:05]} 16... g6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 17. g5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 17... Nxe5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 18. fxe5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 18... Nh5
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 19. h4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 19... Rc7 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 20. Qg4
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 20... Ng7 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 21. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 21... Qa8
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 22. Rh2 {[%emt 0:00:31]} 22... Nh5 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 23. Rg2
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 23... Bd8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 24. Bd2 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 24... Rd7
{[%emt 0:00: 07]} 25. Nh2 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 25... Bc6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 26. Qf3
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 26... Rg8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 27. Ng4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 27... Bb6
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 28. Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 28... Nxf6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 29. gxf6
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 29... Qf8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 30. Qf4 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 30... Qd8
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 31. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 31... Rc7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 32. Rg5
{[%emt 0:00:34]} 32... Qf8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 33. Rg2 {[%emt 0: 00:23]} 33... Qd8
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 34. Kf1 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 34... Qf8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Be1
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 35... h5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 36. Qg5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 36... a4
{[%emt 0: 00:02]} 37. Bg3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 37... Ra7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 38. Bf4
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 38... Rd7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 39. Qg3 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 39... Bd8
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 40. Qf3 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 40... Ra7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41. Kf2
{[%emt 0:00:41]} 41... Rc7 {[%emt 0:00: 04]} 42. Bg5 {[%emt 0:00:47]} 42... Rc8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 43. Qf4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 43... Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 44. Qf3
{[%emt 0:00:24]} 44... Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 45. Bf4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 45... Rc7
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 46. Ke2 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 46... Be8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 47. Rg5
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 47... Rg7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 48. fxg7+ {[%emt 0:00:23]} 48...
Qxg7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 49. Rg2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 49... Rc8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 50.
Bg5 {[%emt 0: 00:06]} 50... Bxg5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 51. Rxg5 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 1-0
[/pgn]

And some highlights.

[d]rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/4pn2/2pp4/3P1P2/2P1PN2/PP4PP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5
Another anticomputer opening line. It is interesting why Stockfish does not develop its bishop to f5.

[d]r1q2rk1/pb1nbp1p/1p2p1p1/2ppP1P1/3P2Q1/2PBPN1R/PP5P/R1B3K1 w - - 0 17
Interesting if Stockfish recognizes it is completely lost. I know the Stockfish team tested with some 14 000 games a penalty for a backward pawn part of the king shelter, and it did not work, but this is what loses the position for black. The f7 backward-fated pawn part of the king shelter dooms black. Maybe if backward pawn of the king shelter does not work, than f2/f7 backward-backward-fated pawn will work, as f2/f7 is the weakness in some 80% of cases.

[d]r3rnk1/p3bp1p/1p2p1pR/2ppP1P1/3P3Q/2P1PN2/PPBBqK1P/5bR1 w - - 0 25
Here I made some mistakes and Stockfish counterattacks, but I think white is still better.

[d]r1rb1nk1/p4p1p/qp2p1pR/2ppP1P1/2bP1K2/2P1PN1P/PPBB1Q2/6R1 w - - 0 29
A funny position, what the white king does on f4 is not clear, but maybe it hopes to penetrate even further.

[d]r1r2nk1/5p1p/1p2pPpR/2pp2P1/p2P1K2/2PbP2P/1q1B1QR1/3B4 w - - 0 35
Stockfish takes everything and marches a pawn into promotion, but its position is already hopeless. Interesting indeed why Stockfish does not see a forced mate just some 5 moves on. Probably it is unexpected.

[d]r5rk/5p1n/1p3PpQ/2ppP1P1/pq3KR1/2P1P2P/3BB3/8 w - - 0 41
Stockfish now sees mate and sacrifices everything.

[d]r5r1/5p1k/1p3Pp1/2ppP1P1/1P3K1R/p3P2P/3BB3/8 b - - 0 43
No mate if the black rook is not on g8, but it is exactly there. (:

If you want to win against engines, you have to take chances; sacrifice a pawn, 2 a piece and a rook to surprise the engine. Engines do not expect many continuations.


[d]2rq1r1k/1b2bppp/2n1pn2/p2pN3/2pP1PP1/PpP1PQ2/1PBN2RP/R1B3K1 w - - 0 16
Playing b4-b3 is wrong positionally. Stockfish is worse on the opposite king side, where it is under attack, but closes the entire queen side. The win might come some 50 moves later, but white is already better.

[d]3q1r1k/1br1bp1p/4p1p1/p2pP1Pn/2pP2QP/PpP1P3/1P1N2R1/RBB3K1 b - - 0 20
Look at the f7 backward-fated pawn part of the king shelter again. Black is almost hopeless here, but probably Stockfish still does not recognize it at that point of time.

[d]5qrk/3r1p1p/1bb1pPp1/p2pP3/2pP3P/PpP1PQ2/1P1B2R1/RB4K1 w - - 0 30
Look at that position very well; this is called a closed position, and, as the entire queen side is closed, black simply does not have counterplay. The black dark-squared bishop can not cross to the king side at all (and that is any square at all for the rest of the game). The black light-squared bishop can not cross to any square on the king side apart from e8 to the rest of the game. The black rook on the queen side can not cross to the king side except to e8. Thus, black has 3 pieces that do not take part into the game. There are simply onlookers, whatever their mobility. The white rook on a1 is also badly out of play, but it is the only white piece in such condition, while black has full 3 pieces like that. Stockfish probably still does not recognize that.

[d]2rb1qrk/5p2/2b1pPp1/3pP1Bp/p1pP1Q1P/PpP1P3/1P3KR1/RB6 b - - 0 43
It takes some time to win the game, but while white is improving the coordination of its pieces with each move, black is simply shuffling along pieces on the queen side.

[d]3bbq1k/2r2pr1/4pPp1/3pP1Rp/p1pP1B1P/PpP1PQ2/1P2K3/RB6 w - - 0 48
Stockfish sees mate and sacrifices a rook, I am slower at that, but I know there is a forced winning line.

[d]2r1b2k/5pq1/4p1p1/3pP1Rp/p1pP3P/PpP1PQ2/1P2K3/RB6 b - - 0 51
Stockfish here resigned, although there are some more moves to play.

I think this game is an example how to win against a strong engine without a minimal risk: just close one of the sides and attack on the other one, taking your time. But of course, under stress conditions (for example someone shouting at you, or pushing you, or even attractively smiling) it is very possible that the human player will make a mistake and the engine will win.

I hope you are not bored by my useless commentary.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:26 pm

overlord wrote:Thanks for the game, Lyudmil. Nice example how exploit engines weak points :)
Hi Miroslav, you are also welcome to post some of your games into this thread, but only if they are against Stockfish DD to be on topic. :D I know you play some very nice games against engines.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:30 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Nice anti-computer strategy gameplay :D

I prefer to beat them using my well stumbled opening lines regards,
Dr.D
It is important to beat them, to show that humans are not inferior. :D

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9772
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:47 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Nice anti-computer strategy gameplay :D

I prefer to beat them using my well stumbled opening lines regards,
Dr.D
It is important to beat them, to show that humans are not inferior. :D
I appreciate anyone who plays the computer chess engines and shows some guts :D

Since the year 2002 I've played 1011 games at long time controls which were 20 minutes + 20 seconds increment then I incresed the time controls to 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment....

I switch off the chess engine thinking lines,no takebacks and the only advantage that I apply for myself is giving myself infinite time control....

I have an elite database with my best games annotated by the top chess engines and commented by myself....

I play the following opening systems mainly:
_With White I play the Larsen-Nimzovitch attack,a marvellous opening system with a lot of potential....

Against the Sicilian I play the Grandprix Attack with a lot of attacking schemes resulting in a beautiful fireworks over the chess borad....

_With Black I play the Pirc Defence against 1. e4 along with the Berlin defence against the Ruy Lopez and the Scandinavian Defence from time to time....

Against 1.d4 I play mainly the KID and the Old Indian Defence which I admire for it's remarkable formations and the Chigorin defence though rarely....

Oh,I play on an official FIDE chessborad as if there is a human in front of me regards,
Dr.D

P.S.Lately,I set up a chess game against some of the oldies but goodies like this one here played recently 8-)

[pgn][Event "____12G Match 02"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2013.11.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dr.Deeb"]
[Black "ChessGenius v1.003"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A01"]
[Annotator "Deep Rybka 4.1 x64 (20m)"]
[PlyCount "104"]
[Source "Chess Informant"]

{A01: Nimzowitsch-Larsen Opening} 1. b3 e5 2. Bb2 Nc6 3. e3 Nf6 4. Bb5 d6 5.
Ne2 Bd7 6. O-O a6 7. Bxc6 Bxc6 8. d4 e4 (8... Qe7 9. Nd2 O-O-O 10. a4 Qe6 11.
c4 Qg4 12. e4 h5 13. d5 Bd7 14. c5 h4 15. f3 Qg5 16. Nc4 Kb8 17. Qd3 h3 18. g3
dxc5 19. Nxe5 Be8 20. Nc4 Bd7 21. e5 Ne8 22. Qc3 f6 23. e6 {
Revelator (2504)-Simplicissimus (2477) playchess.com INT 2007 1-0 (60)}) 9. c4
d5 10. Ba3 $146 (10. Nbc3 Bd6 11. Ng3 h5 12. cxd5 Bb5 13. Nxb5 axb5 14. Qe2 Qd7
15. f3 Bxg3 16. hxg3 Qxd5 17. Rfc1 c6 18. Rc5 Qd6 19. Re5+ Kf8 20. a4 b4 21.
Rf1 Rh6 22. Qc4 Kg8 23. fxe4 Rg6 24. Rf4 Rxg3 {
Wolf,R-Haist,W (2225) Bad Urach 1986 1/2-1/2 (42)}) 10... Bxa3 11. Nxa3 O-O 12.
Nb1 Qe7 13. Ng3 Bd7 14. Nc3 c6 {Secures b5} 15. c5 {This push gains space} Bg4
{Black threatens to win material: Bg4xd1} 16. Qe1 Nh5 17. h3 Nxg3 18. fxg3 {
White has new doubled pawns: g2+g3} Be6 19. Ne2 Qg5 {
Black threatens to win material: Qg5xe3} 20. Nf4 Bc8 21. b4 h6 22. Kh2 Bd7 23.
Qe2 a5 24. a3 Rfe8 25. Ra2 Bc8 (25... Reb8 26. b5 $11) 26. Rfa1 (26. b5 a4 $14)
26... Qe7 (26... Bd7 27. g4 $11) 27. Qh5 (27. b5 Qd7 $14) 27... Rf8 28. Qd1 (
28. b5 Bd7 $14) 28... Be6 29. Qd2 (29. b5 cxb5 30. Rb1 b4 $14) 29... Ra7 (29...
g5 30. Ne2 $11) 30. Qb2 (30. b5 Raa8 $14) 30... Rfa8 (30... g5 31. Ne2 $14) 31.
Qd2 (31. b5 Re8 $14) 31... Bd7 (31... g5 32. Nxe6 Qxe6 33. a4 $11) 32. Qb2 (32.
b5 f6 $14 (32... cxb5 $143 33. Nxd5 Qg5 34. Nb6 $18)) 32... Qg5 33. Qd2 Qd8 (
33... Ra6 34. a4 $11) 34. b5 $14 {Playing against the pawn chain} Qg5 35. b6
Ra6 36. a4 (36. g4 Kh8 $14) 36... Be6 (36... h5 37. Rf1 $11) 37. Qe1 Bd7 38.
Qf2 Rf8 39. g4 f5 40. gxf5 Rxf5 41. g4 {White threatens to win material: g4xf5.
} Rf7 42. Qg3 Ra8 43. Rg1 Raf8 44. Rf2 Kh7 $2 (44... Qe7 $142 $5 {
would keep Black alive} 45. Rfg2 Qg5 $14) 45. h4 $16 Qe7 $2 (45... Qd8 $142 46.
g5 hxg5 47. hxg5 Rh8 $16) 46. g5 $18 hxg5 47. hxg5 (47. Qxg5 $6 Qxg5 48. Rxg5
Rf5 $14) 47... Rh8 48. Kg2 Kg8 49. Ng6 Rxf2+ 50. Qxf2 Qxg5+ 51. Kf1 Qd8 52.
Nxh8 Kxh8 (52... Kxh8 53. Qf7 Bh3+ 54. Ke1 Qd7 55. Rxg7 Qxf7 56. Rxf7 Bc8 57.
Rf8+ Kh7 58. Rxc8 Kg6 59. Rc7 Kh5 60. Rxb7 Kg5 61. Rc7 Kf5 62. b7 Kg4 63. Rf7
Kh5 64. b8=Q Kh4 65. Qg8 Kh5 66. Rh7#) 1-0[/pgn]
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Daniel Shawul
Posts: 4065
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:34 am
Location: Ethiopia
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Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Daniel Shawul » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:08 pm

I thought Stockfish got much since version 4 better, but maybe it just got marginally better.
If this is the point you are trying to prove, then you can say the same for almost any other engine. I am sure there has been many other chess players here ( Pablo?) that manages to draw/win with such system. So the statement that I thought engine-X got much since version V-1, but maybe it just got marginally better' can be said to all. Ofcourse I don't need to play thousands of games to prove it is only marginally better since it doesn't detect fortress like every other engine on planet earth.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:39 pm

Daniel Shawul wrote:
I thought Stockfish got much since version 4 better, but maybe it just got marginally better.
If this is the point you are trying to prove, then you can say the same for almost any other engine. I am sure there has been many other chess players here ( Pablo?) that manages to draw/win with such system. So the statement that I thought engine-X got much since version V-1, but maybe it just got marginally better' can be said to all. Ofcourse I don't need to play thousands of games to prove it is only marginally better since it doesn't detect fortress like every other engine on planet earth.
I do not try to prove anything, I am just poking some fun at myself and the world.

Regarding fortress detection, there are engines that detect some similar notions, for example Komodo, and I think that is good. However, there is a contradiction in terms in your statement on winning by way of building a fortress. Fortress ensures a draw, you can not win by building a fortress. There are some other concepts at play there, unfortunately not everyone seems to grasp them well.

mcostalba
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: The Doomsday of Stockfish DD

Post by mcostalba » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:53 pm

Hi Lyudmil,

I always enjoy your posts, especially these ones where SF loses :-)

I am not a good chess player but I also think that using good anti-computer strategy and allowing human to think as long as he wants this can lead still today to some draw or even some win against any engine.

Engines are very strong, but are not tuned for dealing with these kind of positions, simply because do not occur a lot in practice, in engine vs engine matches, that is the main tool developers use for testing new ideas and tuning their engines.

OTH hard-coding some kind of knowledge to deal with these positions, apart from the fact that is far from trivial, it is also absolutely not guaranteed to be an improvement in the average case. And the average case is what the engine is tested against when you run thousands of games, as is routinely done today as part of engine development.

Thanks for posting your games and for clearly annotate them.

Marco

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