Re: CCRL 40/40, 40/4 and FRC lists updated (16th February 2019)
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:58 am
Question: On which CPU is LC Zero running? Only 1 core? NO distilled network and has more than 3000 Elo?!?
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Okay.Graham Banks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:46 amThat's on 1CPU only. No GPU.Rebel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:47 amPerhaps it's an idea to include the average NPS in the name for LZ as a sort of indication of the strength of the GPU used.Code: Select all
Rank Name Rating 45 Lc0 0.20.1 w36089 64-bit 3022
Not that I'm aware of, aside from a generic opening book and tablebases.Rebel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 amOkay.Graham Banks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:46 amThat's on 1CPU only. No GPU.Rebel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:47 amPerhaps it's an idea to include the average NPS in the name for LZ as a sort of indication of the strength of the GPU used.Code: Select all
Rank Name Rating 45 Lc0 0.20.1 w36089 64-bit 3022
Now that we are talking, are other programs now also allowed to use datafiles that add strength?
So learning files are allowed?Graham Banks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:28 amNot that I'm aware of, aside from a generic opening book and tablebases.Rebel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 amOkay.Graham Banks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:46 amThat's on 1CPU only. No GPU.Rebel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:47 amPerhaps it's an idea to include the average NPS in the name for LZ as a sort of indication of the strength of the GPU used.Code: Select all
Rank Name Rating 45 Lc0 0.20.1 w36089 64-bit 3022
Now that we are talking, are other programs now also allowed to use datafiles that add strength?
Makes sense.Modern Times wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 pm No learning is allowed during the course of running an engine. Prior fixed learning is allowed. I can't think of any examples at the moment. Any testing an engine author does prior to release is in effect learning.
I guess the exception is if the learning file is essentially an opening book, then that is a problem but things get a bit murky as well. In essence the engine is supposed to do the work and not use pre-prepared moves, except for tablebases as Graham says,
There’s a difference between a traditional opening book and a LC0 network, or even LC0 sub network trained only on opening positions for say twenty moves.Rebel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:47 amMakes sense.Modern Times wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 pm No learning is allowed during the course of running an engine. Prior fixed learning is allowed. I can't think of any examples at the moment. Any testing an engine author does prior to release is in effect learning.
I guess the exception is if the learning file is essentially an opening book, then that is a problem but things get a bit murky as well. In essence the engine is supposed to do the work and not use pre-prepared moves, except for tablebases as Graham says,
AZ and LZ are the biggest breakthrough in the history of computer chess, never seen an elo progression of 3400 in one year, most programmers would settle for 50. I am glad to see LZ rapidly climbing in your rating list.
Nevertheless I think LZ is a game changer to your rules. LZ learns by self-play and now other engines should have the same right.
I agree with you datafiles shouldn't be opening books in disguise and the learning part (if present) should be turned off during your testing. If you plan to play 3 openings against X,Y and Z the engine is not allowed to learn from the game against X.
All .exe files are examples, aren't they? They contain the evaluation parameters that were learned/tuned by playing millions of games. LC0 learning is just tuning of its NN parameters; there is no difference between this kind of learning and tuning of any eval, (other than that the LC0 eval has more parameters). I don't know if there are any Chess engines that store their eval parameters in a separate parameter file (e.g. to facilitate tuning without having to recompile), but I know for sure that most Shogi engines do this. (E.g. for Bonanza you would have to download a >200MB file with eval parameters, in addition to the executable.)Modern Times wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 pm No learning is allowed during the course of running an engine. Prior fixed learning is allowed. I can't think of any examples at the moment.