CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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Hugo
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by Hugo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:53 pm

mkchan wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:17 pm
This thread is full of eristic intent and sophistry from the author. I vote we shut the thread down as non-productive.
I dont understand, that there is no moderator to lock those threads

C.K.

AndrewGrant
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by AndrewGrant » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:29 pm

mkchan wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:17 pm
This thread is full of eristic intent and sophistry from the author. I vote we shut the thread down as non-productive.
+1

ThatsIt
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by ThatsIt » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:38 pm

+ 1 too | now + 2

MikeB
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by MikeB » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:04 pm

ThatsIt wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:38 pm
+ 1 too | now + 2
I support the lockup. But if we simply don’t reply , he’s eventually just replying to himself - the vanity of vanities. . Also making him a “foe” ( mislabeled - should be simply “ignore”, and all of his posts are hidden from you ). You have to override the ignore button to see his verbiage , but do that once and I can almost guaranteed that one would not do it again.

Daniel Anulliero
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by Daniel Anulliero » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:59 pm

Hugo wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:53 pm
mkchan wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:17 pm
This thread is full of eristic intent and sophistry from the author. I vote we shut the thread down as non-productive.
I dont understand, that there is no moderator to lock those threads

C.K.
Agree!
But before locking this silly thread I want To say :
CCRL and testers are just GREAT !
Isa never reach Her great elo (2360 wow! ) whithout Graham, José , tirsa... tests and funnies tournaments !
Great thanks To CCRL 😊😉

mwyoung
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by mwyoung » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:24 pm

sovaz1997 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:30 pm
mwyoung wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:41 pm
AndrewGrant wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:21 pm
elcabesa wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:11 pm
so the real problem for you is that LC0 and NN behave so poorly?
That tends to be the real motivation for those with an obsession with LC0.
I have an obsession with testing chess computers since 1982.
And some of you A/B guys really hate Lc0.

And my favorite engines is always the best tested engines.

Some may remember when Houdini was best, and I tested Stockfish as best.
The same kind of fan boys said I had an obsession with Stockfish.
I called it as Stockfish was tested. The Best....Now Lc0 is best by test.
Here I agree. Indeed, many are annoyed at Lc0 and try to belittle it. But it works on the other hand: some Leela fans hate Stockfish. And one of the reasons is described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring :D
Thanks for the link. :)
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Take on me. foes 0

MikeB
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by MikeB » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:25 pm

Daniel Anulliero wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Hugo wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:53 pm
mkchan wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:17 pm
This thread is full of eristic intent and sophistry from the author. I vote we shut the thread down as non-productive.
I dont understand, that there is no moderator to lock those threads

C.K.
Agree!
But before locking this silly thread I want To say :
CCRL and testers are just GREAT !
Isa never reach Her great elo (2360 wow! ) whithout Graham, José , tirsa... tests and funnies tournaments !
Great thanks To CCRL 😊😉
I echo your sentiments!

Dann Corbit
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:28 pm

mwyoung wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:14 am
I hate to say it, but more people will use TCEC as the real benchmark for the chess engines true strength. If this practice does not stop....
That would be ignorant, because there are not enough games for an accurate measurement.
And the hardware used at TCEC is out of reach for most users.
On the other hand, it does make for fabulous chess.

But you might be right. People do lots of crazy things.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Dann Corbit
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 pm

mkchan wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:17 pm
This thread is full of eristic intent and sophistry from the author. I vote we shut the thread down as non-productive.
I don't think we should shut down a thread because we do not agree with something.
I do not agree, but I do not call for locking the thread.
I do not think a thread should be shut down for being acerbic unless it actually violates the charter.
I do not think anything in this thread violates the charter.

This is a cyclic argument that comes up once or twice a year. "The hardware is not fast enough."
Well, sure, the games generated would be better if we used a million dollars worth of new hardware.
And we can slow down the games and get better chess.
But even forty moves in two hours like SSDF is not enough to satisfy some people.
And that is fine too. You can want supreme hardware and very slow time control.
But the dollars and the time have to come from somewhere.
When it gets down to the bottom line, nobody ever comes up with the million dollars or the 50 volunteers.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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hgm
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Re: CCRL Chess Engine Match Standards. How obsolete are they?

Post by hgm » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:52 am

[Moderation] I clipped off the part of this thread where the discussion degenerated to name calling.

Note that arguing for unwelcome, false or stupid opinions is not in itself a violation of the charter, even if it is for the purpose of trolling. Up to this point the O.P. has remained polite in the face what some others said to him.

If any of you think this is trolling, then do not feed the troll by posting here; if you do so than it is mainly your fault that the troll succeeds.

I can summarize the discussion as that the only critisism of the O.P. that is considered somewhat valid is that the name of the CCRL flavors should be changed from 40/4 and 40/40 to 40/1 and 40/10. No one agreed with any of his other points. In particular, it does not matter what you use as 'reference hardware', just like it does not matter whether you quote length measurement in centimeters or inches.

As a point not yet mentioned I can point out that nowadays more people have phones that that have PCs, so taking a phone as reference might not be such a ccrazy idea at all.

If you have nothing new to add to this, please stop posting here. If the discussion derails again, I will lock the thread as a preventive measure.

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