Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

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mwyoung
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by mwyoung » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:47 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:32 pm
Because any more than default may hurt raw performance.
Lc0 has many default settings. So I am not allowed to change them because it MAY hurt raw performance.

Are you saying I must test Lc0 at default only. Even when my setting are stronger for Lc0.

Or in your mind is there certain settings I am allowed to change?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
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zullil
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by zullil » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:06 pm

mwyoung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:17 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:36 am
4 threads for Lc0 = exercise in futility.

And so with your ponder match.
You always say this. But you can never answer why. Why is using 4 threads a exercise in futility?
For a fighting chance at getting a solid answer, try joining and posting the question at https://discordapp.com/invite/pKujYxD

Technical documentation regarding Lc0 seems to be rather lacking.

Modern Times
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by Modern Times » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:56 pm

How many threads do TCEC and the other one (chess.com ?) tournaments use with Lc0 ?
.

Opinions expressed here are my own, and not necessarily those of the CCRL Group.

mwyoung
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by mwyoung » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:06 pm

I am testing lc0 at 2 threads, vs 4 threads playing Stockfish.

4 threads scored -6 =43 +1

2 threads is playing now on my channel
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
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zullil
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by zullil » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Modern Times wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:56 pm
How many threads do TCEC and the other one (chess.com ?) tournaments use with Lc0 ?
Good question. How many GPU's are being used? My understanding is that you want two CPU "worker threads" for each GPU that the system has.

[EDIT] It seems that AllieStein at TCEC is running on 2 GPUs and Threads is set at default (since it's not listed in the settings).

mwyoung
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:00 pm

Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by mwyoung » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:15 pm

zullil wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm
Modern Times wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:56 pm
How many threads do TCEC and the other one (chess.com ?) tournaments use with Lc0 ?
Good question. How many GPU's are being used? My understanding is that you want two CPU "worker threads" for each GPU that the system has.

[EDIT] It seems that AllieStein at TCEC is running on 2 GPUs and Threads is set at default (since it's not listed in the settings).
There are many types of GPUs. Are we to assume that 2 threads work just as well on 980, 1080, RTX 2060, RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 ti. Even when these cards at the top of performance stack. Run many times faster then the GPU cards on the lower end of the stack. Hmmm

But if I use 2 slower cards then it is ok to use 4 threads.

We have a tendency to always want to carve some ideas into stone. Without actually testing if are assumptions are correct.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Take on me. foes 0

shrapnel
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by shrapnel » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:53 am

mwyoung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:15 pm
We have a tendency to always want to carve some ideas into stone. Without actually testing if are assumptions are correct.
True. What's really surprising is that some otherwise very intelligent people also tend to have closed minds.
I still remember how I was laughed at by the Big Brains here when I suggested a few years ago that Chess Engines would become even more strong if they learnt how to use the Power of the GPU. They told me very kindly, with technical details, that chess engines couldn't possibly utilize the GPU and they could only use the CPU and that I didn't know what I was talking about.
I'm not a Software Programmer by Profession, but History has proved me right.
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Modern Times
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Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by Modern Times » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:21 am

mwyoung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:15 pm

There are many types of GPUs. Are we to assume that 2 threads work just as well on 980, 1080, RTX 2060, RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 ti. Even when these cards at the top of performance stack. Run many times faster then the GPU cards on the lower end of the stack. Hmmm
Yes. I use the default 2 threads on the GTX1050, logically it should be more for a RTX2080 ti.
.

Opinions expressed here are my own, and not necessarily those of the CCRL Group.

shrapnel
Posts: 1248
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:43 am
Location: New Delhi, India

Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by shrapnel » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:01 am

Modern Times wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:21 am
logically it should be more for a RTX2080 ti.
Yes, that would explain mwyoung recommending 4 Threads, as he has a 2080 Ti.
At the same time, going overboard with the number of Threads also seems to be a bad idea.
One should find the correct balance.
Is using an odd number of threads a bad idea ?
i7 5960X @ 4.1 Ghz, 64 GB G.Skill RipJaws RAM, Twin Asus ROG Strix OC 11 GB Geforce 2080 Tis

zullil
Posts: 5684
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Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Lc0 + 320x24.J13B.2-swa-136000 vs. Stockfish 250919 TC= 30m+30s

Post by zullil » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:23 am

mwyoung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:15 pm
zullil wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm
Modern Times wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:56 pm
How many threads do TCEC and the other one (chess.com ?) tournaments use with Lc0 ?
Good question. How many GPU's are being used? My understanding is that you want two CPU "worker threads" for each GPU that the system has.

[EDIT] It seems that AllieStein at TCEC is running on 2 GPUs and Threads is set at default (since it's not listed in the settings).
There are many types of GPUs. Are we to assume that 2 threads work just as well on 980, 1080, RTX 2060, RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 ti. Even when these cards at the top of performance stack. Run many times faster then the GPU cards on the lower end of the stack. Hmmm

But if I use 2 slower cards then it is ok to use 4 threads.

We have a tendency to always want to carve some ideas into stone. Without actually testing if are assumptions are correct.
Testing is good, provided it's done in a statistically valid way. On the other hand, when an Lc0 developer includes the following along with the code at Github, I tend to pay attention:
Number of (CPU) threads to use.
Default is 2. There's currently no use of making it more than 3 as it's limited by mutex contention which is yet to be optimized.

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