Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

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Raphexon
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Raphexon » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:26 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:33 pm
Raphexon wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:46 am
I obviously can't formally prove the game theoretic value.
But regardless I am 99.8% sure it's a loss.
That's basically what people were saying about 1.g4, and the reason this game is taking place.
Once you're done with this game we could test the Bongcloud 1. e4 e5 2. Ke2.
I'm confident enough that my weak budget laptop and a 5man TB and a reasonable amount of time is all I need to win as black.

White gives up the ability to castle and loses tempo, that's a huge burden to overcome.
Much bigger than g4.

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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:54 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:20 am
Note that for me more interesting then centipawn is analysis like
white depth 20 lose against black depth 10
white depth 21 draw against black depth 10
white depth 21 lose against black depth 11
...

The idea is that if white want a draw simply play comp-comp game at small depth to see if white can draw.
If white can draw or win then increase black's depth by 1 in the next game
If white lose then increase white's depth by 1 in the next game.
The problem with that is that after all the data that you get, the question is, did you catch the mainline? Because if there's some line by white that can draw all the games of lower depth, or a line by black that can beat all the games of lower depth, but you miss them, then any data that you get back will be irrelevant.

I'm curious, how much depth does Stockfish need to switch to 36...Rxd4 ? Because if it's very high depth, then the tool would waste time increasing white's depth so it can draw, and increasing black's depth so it can win for irrelevant lines which would clearly be much slower than anything else that finds Rxd4 faster.

If Rxd4 is the only move that wins (for the sake of discussion) but white needs very high depth to draw against (say) Rxb7 then you could spend days playing games of increasing depth for white building data for irrelevant positions, while it's clear instead you should have found Rxd4 ASAP (anything with low depth without this move would only be wasting your time.)

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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:39 pm

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6 Rc5 34. Be3 Bc4 35. Bb7 Rc7 36. Ra1 Rxd4 37. Bxd4 Nc2 38. Rc1


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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:54 pm


If 39. Rxc2 a4

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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:49 pm

Accepted.

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6 Rc5 34. Be3 Bc4 35. Bb7 Rc7 36. Ra1 Rxd4 37. Bxd4 Nc2 38. Rc1 Rxb7 39. Rxc2 a4 40. Rd2


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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:16 pm


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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:11 am

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6 Rc5 34. Be3 Bc4 35. Bb7 Rc7 36. Ra1 Rxd4 37. Bxd4 Nc2 38. Rc1 Rxb7 39. Rxc2 a4 40. Rd2 f5 41. gxf6

Conditional:
If 41...a3 42. Be3 Ra7 43. Rd8+ Kf7 44. fxg7 Kxg7 45. Rd1 a2 46. Ra1 Ra5 47. Bxb6 Rb5 48. Bd4+ (warning: if you don't accept this entire line my next move will be in a few weeks :mrgreen: )

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:27 am


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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:40 am

I just wanted to resign in a position where I'm two pawns up!

{White resigns.}



0-1

Thanks for the game Harvey! I apologize if my defense was too disappointing, but in fact I couldn't have defended better! You delivered the strongest attack, congrats on the win!

I'd also like to thank everyone that followed this game, correspondence games aren't about the moves, but about the memories, and I'll never forget this one! :)

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:12 am

Ovyron wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:40 am
I just wanted to resign in a position where I'm two pawns up!

{White resigns.}



0-1

Thanks for the game Harvey! I apologize if my defense was too disappointing, but in fact I couldn't have defended better! You delivered the strongest attack, congrats on the win!

I'd also like to thank everyone that followed this game, correspondence games aren't about the moves, but about the memories, and I'll never forget this one! :)
Thanks for the game and to all those that showed an interest.

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