mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

[Ovyron]

Now I feel like a cheater

[zullil]

Now I feel like a cheater

If it bothers you, just assume I'm lying.

[Zenmastur]

Now I feel like a cheater

I guess I should have put a time limit on it, but at the time I didn't envision it taking nearly this long. I wouldn't worry about cheating too much. Unless they start giving you moves I'm good with it. Zullil's mate is probably wrong anyway.

It would be nice to know where you're at in the mate (number of moves) so I can do some rough calculations to see if this is going to happen in my life time. I know how fast your computer is, what I don't know is how quickly you can prove some position down in the tree you are working on is a mate. If it's 1 minute or longer, I will be dead before you are finished. Which just goes to prove my original point. YOU WILL BENIFIT FROM BETTER HARDWARE!

i.e. Time to get back to your game!

Regards,

Zenmastur

[zullil]

Now I feel like a cheater

I guess I should have put a time limit on it, but at the time I didn't envision it taking nearly this long. I wouldn't worry about cheating too much. Unless they start giving you moves I'm good with it. Zullil's mate is probably wrong anyway.
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Regards,

Zenmastur

As I said, I did nothing. If mate-in-29 is wrong then Stockfish is to blame.

Mate-in-28 now, by the way...

[jp]

I know how fast your computer is

I don't. How fast is it?

Zenmastur, you can stop the distraction now by just guaranteeing you'll take the White pieces!

If mate-in-2[8] is wrong then Stockfish is to blame.

Engines are always to blame.

(But humans who fall in love with an engine have only themselves to blame.)

[Zenmastur]

I know how fast your computer is

I don't. How fast is it?

He says it's 2.5Mnps.

Zenmastur, you can stop the distraction now by just guaranteeing you'll take the White pieces!

I agreed to this:

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No I wouldn't, as that defeats it's purpose. I could have given some other type of problem but a mate seem best because to get it close to it's actual depth I know about how deep you have to search. Think of it like this, if this were a non-mate position and you had an advantage of 1.20 pawns and this wasn't enough to secure a win, just a draw, you would be looking for every centi-pawn you could find in the position with the idea of driving the position to a win. In this position the win isn't in doubt. Ok, maybe in JP's mind there is some doubt, but for the rest of us it's pretty much a sure thing. Lets say if you miss the length by 5 moves or more you get to defend 1.g4 against me and if you are within 4 moves I'll defend 1.g4 against you! But you have to give a complete line to mate so we can check it. Deal?

I looked at your analysis briefly but it's late (6:15 am) so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Regards,

Zenmastur

To me this means if it's a mate in 25 and he shows a mate in 30 he defends 1.g4 once again!

If we do a little calculation and assume half the moves in the position lead to mate and the other half lead to a draw (on the white side, all moves on the black side must be checked) AND he is still at a mate in 35, then he has to vet 10^6 positions to get it to a mate in 29 so he can attack my 1.g4. Which 10^6 positions he has to vet is the real problem!

If he can vet them at the rate of 1 position per minute we will be here until the year 2065! Maybe by then he will have upgraded his hardware, but it won't make any difference as I won't be around to play! But if he stays at it and finally gets there and I'm still capable, then I will play! At the current rate of progress I will be playing the black pieces.

One other thing to note: If he shows a mate and I find any alternate move by black on any ply that extends the mate beyond the 4 moves he's allowed then he defends.

[Zenmastur]

Ok, a slight exaggeration, we will only have to wait until 2022 not 2065.

[jp]

If you believe White is lost and also believe Ovyron's hardware is way too little, then it makes a lot of sense for you to play White for an interesting and maybe informative game.

[Ovyron]

To me this means if it's a mate in 25 and he shows a mate in 30 he defends 1.g4 once again!

No, we agreed to "within 5 moves", not 4.

Suppose:

It's a mate in 25.

I report:

A mate in 25. <- Within 0 moves => I play black!

A mate in 26. <- Within 1 move => I play black!

A mate in 27. <- Within 2 moves => I play black!

A mate in 28. <- Within 3 moves => I play black!

A mate in 29. <- Within 4 moves => I play black!

A mate in 30. <- Within 5 moves => I play black!

So if it's a mate in 25 and I report a mate in 31 or worse, you get black.

I'm keeping my progress secret but I'll just say I've already solved this to mate with "exhaustive" black moves (black can't delay the mate further, though white could mate faster):

[d]2b4R/r2r2p1/p1N1k3/1B3R2/3p4/2b1B3/PPP5/2K5 w - -

That was after ...Ke6. I'm currently doing that for ...Kg6. I guess it'll give you a rough idea of how much remains (this was within 3 moves from the root), do I still take till 2022? NOTE: I'll not give a mate that black can improve, this "within 5 moves" is me missing white moves that mate faster.

Note: I halted all my corr games to solve this ASAP so I don't think you can ask for more than that. If the progress was slow because I continued to do my things and didn't give importance to your challenge, things would be different, but I gave it highest priority.

[Zenmastur]

To me this means if it's a mate in 25 and he shows a mate in 30 he defends 1.g4 once again!

No, we agreed to "within 5 moves", not 4.

Suppose:

It's a mate in 25.

I report:

A mate in 25. <- Within 0 moves => I play black!

A mate in 26. <- Within 1 move => I play black!

A mate in 27. <- Within 2 moves => I play black!

A mate in 28. <- Within 3 moves => I play black!

A mate in 29. <- Within 4 moves => I play black!

A mate in 30. <- Within 5 moves => I play black!

So if it's a mate in 25 and I report a mate in 31 or worse, you get black.

I said this:

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Lets say if you miss the length by 5 moves or more you get to defend 1.g4 against me and if you are within 4 moves I'll defend 1.g4 against you! But you have to give a complete line to mate so we can check it. Deal?

I added bold to the parts in question.

If you miss by 5 you defend. If you miss by 4 I defend.

Isn't that what the quote means to you?

I'm keeping my progress secret but I'll just say I've already solved this to mate with "exhaustive" black moves (black can't delay the mate further, though white could mate faster):

[d]2b4R/r2r2p1/p1N1k3/1B3R2/3p4/2b1B3/PPP5/2K5 w - -

That was after ...Ke6. I'm currently doing that for ...Kg6. I guess it'll give you a rough idea of how much remains (this was within 3 moves from the root), do I still take till 2022? NOTE: I'll not give a mate that black can improve, this "within 5 moves" is me missing white moves that mate faster.

I'm not sure what the advantage is of keeping your progress a secret. I guess it won't make much difference in the end. You are farther along than I had guessed. Sounds like about another week or so.

Note: I halted all my corr games to solve this ASAP so I don't think you can ask for more than that.

I'm not sure why you did that. I wouldn't have. But that just proves my point. Why would you have to stop your other games for this problem? For me it was just some practice I happen to be doing the evening I made that post.