mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
zullil
Posts: 5953
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by zullil » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:05 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:32 pm
Since you were only required to get within five moves, that should have taken maybe eight hours.
Maybe I got there in 2 hours. But how would I know? I couldn't live with myself if my line was within 6 moves only AND THEN I have to play 1.g4 myself :shock: - so I spend most of my time nowadays "making sure".

Because, what if that position is in reality a mate in 25?? Then I have to do this until at least getting a mate in 30, and I'm still far away from that.

I checked a position that I had solved to a mate in 13 with Stockfish, and after reaching depth 70 it was still just showing a mate in 23. Depth 70 and it's still 10 moves off. So I can't trust it, I have to check these lines myself, and the thing is, you never know when you're done, because there may be some move that mates faster, and in some of these variations, much, much faster (I think the worst I've seen is Stockfish jumping from Depth 50 "mate in 18" to "mate in 8" after I make the improvement; again it's just 10 moves, but I'm starting to doubt even Zenmastur has the fastest mating line. Some of the moves white can play are just insane and mate faster for no humanly discernible reason, like, white gives away a pawn and a knight for nothing but BAM mating 10 moves faster :shock: )
The very reliable fastgm has mate-in-30. If you're within 5 of that, I suggest you return to the game with mmt. Your "fans" are growing restless.

BTW, have you updated Stockfish to include this patch?

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:32 pm

zullil wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:26 pm
The very reliable fastgm has mate-in-30. If you're within 5 of that, I suggest you return to the game with mmt. Your "fans" are growing restless.
Oh boy, you may have ruined everything if Zenmastur disqualifies me for getting "outside help" :cry:

I'll see what he says about this (knowing in advance when I'm within 5 moves kind of defeats the purpose of the challenge), but in the meantime I promise that I'll keep analyzing as if I didn't know this (I'm used to this, opponent modeling is about arriving to analysis methods that finds known best moves as if I didn't know the moves in advance.)

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:35 pm

Oh, do'h! I thought fastgm was some finding mate software or something, he's just an user like me! And I had already seen that post...

Anyway, for what I've seen it's possible fastgm is wrong and it's just a mate in 29 (mate in 30 would just be as much delay as black can have with the best moves he has found), so my reading of his message changes nothing.

zullil
Posts: 5953
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by zullil » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:38 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:32 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:26 pm
The very reliable fastgm has mate-in-30. If you're within 5 of that, I suggest you return to the game with mmt. Your "fans" are growing restless.
Oh boy, you may have ruined everything if Zenmastur disqualifies me for getting "outside help" :cry:

I'll see what he says about this (knowing in advance when I'm within 5 moves kind of defeats the purpose of the challenge), but in the meantime I promise that I'll keep analyzing as if I didn't know this (I'm used to this, opponent modeling is about arriving to analysis methods that finds known best moves as if I didn't know the moves in advance.)
C'mon. Surely you already saw his post; you seem to be here 22 hours per day. In any case, no line is given. Maybe he and Zenmastur are both wrong. :shock:

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:45 pm

I posted a message between my post and yours.
zullil wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:38 pm
C'mon. Surely you already saw his post; you seem to be here 22 hours per day.
Do I? Let me do the math...

Hmmm...

Yes, if I spend 22 hours per day on Talkchess my days should have 37 hours, that's cool! 8-)

jp
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:54 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by jp » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:19 pm

I'm hoping Zenmastur will agree to a game regardless of the test outcome just based on the amount of effort you've put into the test.

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by Ovyron » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:43 pm

jp wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:19 pm
I'm hoping Zenmastur will agree to a game regardless of the test outcome just based on the amount of effort you've put into the test.
He has agreed to a game, so it will happen. What is in question is if after 1.g4 I'll be white or black :shock:

jp
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:54 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by jp » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:28 am

Well, since he has stronger hardware, I don't know this is going to be good unless he is White. I hope he can be convinced to be White regardless of his test.

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by Ovyron » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:52 am

(and that's why I'm spending so much time making "sure" that doesn't happen. but who knows how low Zenmastur has gotten that mate to)

zullil
Posts: 5953
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: mmt Vs. Ovyron (G4 D5 BG2)

Post by zullil » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:32 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:52 am
(and that's why I'm spending so much time making "sure" that doesn't happen. but who knows how low Zenmastur has gotten that mate to)
FWIW, my Stockfish-dev is now showing Mate-in-29. At depth 92. Haven't attempted to guide it to something lower, and won't be doing that.

Post Reply