TalkChess.com

Ovyron wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:18 am so far this game has been a waste.

Yes, you could have been playing another 1.g4 game (as Black)! We are highly unlikely to learn anything about the KGA from this game. We might learn more about 1.g4 from another 1.g4 game.

jp wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:53 pm

Ovyron wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:18 am so far this game has been a waste.

Yes, you could have been playing another 1.g4 game (as Black)! We are highly unlikely to learn anything about the KGA from this game. We might learn more about 1.g4 from another 1.g4 game.

Really?

What do you think you're going to learn that you don't already know?

I'll save you some time, not that it takes much to figure this out, but white gets crushed in all variations.

Second,

Ovyron had his chance. I agreed to defend 1.g4, but he gave up due to lack of hardware.

As for this game, he had more than one chance to go for a win. Instead he picked a "safe" and drawing line. That's not my fault. Even until relatively recently he had the chance to enter a superior endgame to the one he's going to get. Assuming he even considered the move he either couldn't see deep enough or he had a lapse in judgement. In either case, he's left with an endgame with no chances for a win. His ONLY chance is if I die before the game is over or I blunder. With best play it's a draw.

Regards,

Zenmastur

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Even until relatively recently he had the chance to enter a superior endgame to the one he's going to get. Assuming he even considered the move he either couldn't see deep enough or he had a lapse in judgement.
Regards,

Zenmastur

I assume you are referring to the "interesting" alternative to 16...Ng6.

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Really?
What do you think you're going to learn that you don't already know?
I'll save you some time, not that it takes much to figure this out, but white gets crushed in all variations.

We certainly don't know that.

True, we won't know after one more game either, but at least it's one more data point. (e.g. Hai was very confident it's a draw. It's worth trying to persuade him to play White against one of you. That could be done simultaneously with other games, of course.)

jp wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:36 pm

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Really?
What do you think you're going to learn that you don't already know?
I'll save you some time, not that it takes much to figure this out, but white gets crushed in all variations.

We certainly don't know that.

What do you mean by the word "know"? If you mean "absolute proof" we will never "know". If you mean "reasonable certain" then we already "know".

zullil wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Even until relatively recently he had the chance to enter a superior endgame to the one he's going to get. Assuming he even considered the move he either couldn't see deep enough or he had a lapse in judgement.
Regards,

Zenmastur

I assume you are referring to the "interesting" alternative to 16...Ng6.

Yes. Although, I don't think this is the only other "try" for a better endgame, it's the most recent.

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:54 pm What do you mean by the word "know"? If you mean "absolute proof" we will never "know". If you mean "reasonable certain" then we already "know".

Clearly, if we are somewhere on a continuum between knowing nothing and absolute proof (which we are), then we can always move in the knowing-more direction along that continuum. (Of course, that it's a continuum is an assumption.)

zullil wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Even until relatively recently he had the chance to enter a superior endgame to the one he's going to get. Assuming he even considered the move he either couldn't see deep enough or he had a lapse in judgement.
Regards,

Zenmastur

I assume you are referring to the "interesting" alternative to 16...Ng6.

FWIW, this is the only point in the last many many moves where lc0 in some of its runs was proposing an alternative to SF's line. Though its overall score seemed to be essentially the same as 16... Ng6: about -0.31

drewdrew wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:59 pm

zullil wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm Even until relatively recently he had the chance to enter a superior endgame to the one he's going to get. Assuming he even considered the move he either couldn't see deep enough or he had a lapse in judgement.
Regards,

Zenmastur

I assume you are referring to the "interesting" alternative to 16...Ng6.

FWIW, this is the only point in the last many many moves where lc0 in some of its runs was proposing an alternative to SF's line. Though its overall score seemed to be essentially the same as 16... Ng6: about -0.31

Stockfish-dev here did not have 16...Ng6 as its first choice. That said, its top three choices were all basically at 0.00.