Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Tue May 12, 2020 7:20 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 2:57 am
which takes a lot of extra calculation time. :cry: :cry: :cry:
So, the bigger your hardware the more extra calculation time you need? Gotcha.

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3


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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Zenmastur » Tue May 12, 2020 9:09 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:20 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 2:57 am
which takes a lot of extra calculation time. :cry: :cry: :cry:
So, the bigger your hardware the more extra calculation time you need? Gotcha.
...said the man that took two days to make an only move... :shock: :shock: :roll: :roll:
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Tue May 12, 2020 9:55 pm

I've been busy playing on Playchess as Ulycrom. I made my move as soon as I saw yours without further analysis.

Forgot to say... Ponder Hit!

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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Zenmastur » Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am

Ovyron wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:20 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 2:57 am
which takes a lot of extra calculation time. :cry: :cry: :cry:
So, the bigger your hardware the more extra calculation time you need? Gotcha.

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5.Rxd3




I'm not 100% sure just yet, but I think you gave me a draw by playing f4. I got the evaluation to sabalize. I did an analysis to 70 ply. Did a deep reverse analysis on that line of play. When I got back to the top I let it run to depth 101/126. From ply 78 to 101 the evaluation was stable. There were only four significant change to the PV in that time. I didn't believe the evaluation was accurate so I began the process of reverse analysing the given line. I made note of the four positions in the line that had changes since iteration 78. I then went to the last change (after blacks 49th move) and began analyzing there. I was expecting for the score to plummet indicating a lost position. I was surprised to see the exact same evaluation hold even after deep analysis from that position. I then went to each of the other positions that saw a change and tried again to find an error in the analysis. I analyzed each position to a depth greater than in the original 100 ply analysis. No changes in the evaluation or the PV. I'm letting it run over night on move 49 to see if another hundred ply search can crack the defences. Even if the defense hold, I won't be 100% convinced, but it does give me quite a bit of hope. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

You said that you couldn't live with yourself if you couldn't win a won game. So, what are you going to do if it turns out that f4 was a blunder or a mistake that put you so close to the edge that any inaccuracy will allow a draw?

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by zullil » Wed May 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am


1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5.Rxd3




I'm not 100% sure just yet, but I think you gave me a draw by playing f4.

...

Regards,

Zenmastur
Yes, that was my conclusion too, but it was based on just an hour of analysis, and I don't have 7-man tables. In any case, the ensuing game will be a wonderful test of Ovyron's capacities. :D

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am
You said that you couldn't live with yourself if you couldn't win a won game. So, what are you going to do if it turns out that f4 was a blunder or a mistake that put you so close to the edge that any inaccuracy will allow a draw?
First tell me what you would do if I win? If by your own admission you wouldn't know how to win with f4, wouldn't it be a position where big depth and hardware leaves you blind? :mrgreen:

(I just saw your move, making mine instantly without further analysis)

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5. Rxd3 cxd3


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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri May 15, 2020 5:51 pm

After this game is drawn, I would like to see the game played again with players reversed.
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by zullil » Fri May 15, 2020 6:09 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:51 pm
After this game is drawn, I would like to see the game played again with players reversed.
I'm not convinced White can draw this. My money--figuratively speaking---is still on Ovyron. :D

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Fri May 15, 2020 9:04 pm

The idea here is to forget about engines' eval and come up with a plan that you can play against engines to beat their defenses, even if your side isn't helped by an engine (the engine's help happened to build the plan.) I couldn't find such a plan for other 3rd moves, in those winning depends on what white plays, so white gets to decide how to defend. With 3...f4 all defenses get beaten with the same idea.

Or, do they? :lol:

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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Zenmastur » Fri May 15, 2020 10:43 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am
You said that you couldn't live with yourself if you couldn't win a won game. So, what are you going to do if it turns out that f4 was a blunder or a mistake that put you so close to the edge that any inaccuracy will allow a draw?
First tell me what you would do if I win? If by your own admission you wouldn't know how to win with f4, wouldn't it be a position where big depth and hardware leaves you blind? :mrgreen:

(I just saw your move, making mine instantly without further analysis)

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5. Rxd3 cxd3

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5. Rxd3 cxd3 6.Qxd3

Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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