Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

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Alayan
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Alayan » Sat May 16, 2020 12:17 am

Ovyron wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am
You said that you couldn't live with yourself if you couldn't win a won game. So, what are you going to do if it turns out that f4 was a blunder or a mistake that put you so close to the edge that any inaccuracy will allow a draw?
First tell me what you would do if I win? If by your own admission you wouldn't know how to win with f4, wouldn't it be a position where big depth and hardware leaves you blind? :mrgreen:
I say to both players, leave the trash-talk for when you're winning the challenge (drawing for Zenmastur, winning as black for Ovyron).

drewdrew
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by drewdrew » Sat May 16, 2020 4:30 am

zullil wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:09 pm
Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:51 pm
After this game is drawn, I would like to see the game played again with players reversed.
I'm not convinced White can draw this. My money--figuratively speaking---is still on Ovyron. :D
I agree. I'm pretty sure this is a win...

Uri Blass
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Uri Blass » Sat May 16, 2020 5:42 am

Ovyron wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:10 am
You said that you couldn't live with yourself if you couldn't win a won game. So, what are you going to do if it turns out that f4 was a blunder or a mistake that put you so close to the edge that any inaccuracy will allow a draw?
First tell me what you would do if I win? If by your own admission you wouldn't know how to win with f4, wouldn't it be a position where big depth and hardware leaves you blind? :mrgreen:

(I just saw your move, making mine instantly without further analysis)

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5. Rxd3 cxd3

I do not think the following is correct:
"by your own admission you wouldn't know how to win with f4"

He only claimed that he did not see a win after a lot of analysis.
It does not prove that practically in a game he could not win.
In order to win seeing the win later can be also enough assuming you play the right moves earlier.

Note that I do not know if black can win or cannot win and did not invest a lot of time in analyzing the position.

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Sat May 16, 2020 3:50 pm

Alayan wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:17 am
I say to both players, leave the trash-talk for when you're winning the challenge
But, that's kind of the point of playing these games on a forum. We had like 20 other ways of sending the moves to each other without discussion. If we spend the rest of the game quiet until someone wins the challenge it kind of defeats the point. And I hope Zen trash-talks more.

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Sat May 16, 2020 3:51 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:43 pm
6.Qxd3
(played instantly without further analysis)

[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4r3/5pk1/1q1r1p1p/1p1Pn2Q/1Pp4P/6P1/5PB1/R3R1K1 b - -"]

1... f5 2. Qd1 Rdd8 3. Re3 f4 4. gxf4 Nd3 5. Rxd3 cxd3 6. Qxd3 Qf6


Alayan
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Alayan » Sat May 16, 2020 5:32 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:50 pm
Alayan wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:17 am
I say to both players, leave the trash-talk for when you're winning the challenge
But, that's kind of the point of playing these games on a forum. We had like 20 other ways of sending the moves to each other without discussion. If we spend the rest of the game quiet until someone wins the challenge it kind of defeats the point. And I hope Zen trash-talks more.
One of you will look very silly. :mrgreen:

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Sat May 16, 2020 10:27 pm

I seriously can't look more silly than when I guaranteed to draw 1.g4 against anyone and then spent 3 weeks calculating a defense for a move my opponent didn't even play because he had one that beat me on the spot :lol:

I tried ICCF, FICGS and LSS but nothing beats these banter correspondence chess games on forums :D

Dann Corbit
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Dann Corbit » Sat May 16, 2020 10:54 pm

My 94 ply search with bleeding edge stockfish (and my mobility tweak) says the current position is almost certainly drawn. Or, rather, the bm and pv (1st ten nodes) and score have not changed for 30 plies.
I think a win by either side would be pretty shocking from the current position.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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Ovyron
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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Ovyron » Sun May 17, 2020 2:49 am

Dann, if I beat Zen you're welcome to try to defend the position. If anything it'd show the uselessness of big depth and how unassisted engines can't win positions like these by themselves.

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Re: Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB II!

Post by Dann Corbit » Sun May 17, 2020 2:56 am

That's why I couch my language with things like "almost certainly drawn". I have seen SF show a score of zero from ply 30 to ply 113 and then an ply 114 fail high for an hour and end up with mate in 35.

So, though it is pretty rare, I never say never. Oops. I just said it, twice.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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