SPCC: Testrun of Ethereal 12.62 finished

[pohl4711]

Testrun of Ethereal 12.62 finished - impressive progress!

https://www.sp-cc.de

(Perhaps you have to clear your browsercache or reload the website)

[mehmet123]

Yes the development of Ethereal is impressive.
Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

[AndrewGrant]

Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.
I'll stick to hand picked terms, slightly adjusted by a minimal NN.

Thanks for the tests. +34 in your testsing; +26 in our regression testing.
Good to see that the self-play gains are inline with the general gains.

[perejaslav]

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

And what if NNUE trained on Ethereal games?

[Rebel]

Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

I am not so sure that's true.

Here is a sim-test at depth=1 with the current NNUE engines.

http://rebel13.nl/dump/mysim.html

I expected 70-80% but.....

[AndrewGrant]

Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

I am not so sure that's true.

Here is a sim-test at depth=1 with the current NNUE engines.

http://rebel13.nl/dump/mysim.html

I expected 70-80% but.....

This might be a statement about the variety of qsearch() functions.

But interesting data. I expected much higher.

[Alayan]

High similarity is evidence, but low similarity is absence of evidence rather than evidence of absence.

If the nets are different, the case might be made that the nets really are this different from each other, but if my understanding is correct, Rubi and Minic use explicitely the same NNUE net (so identical position ordering by evaluation) yet get a very low similarity in the test, which would point at qsearch for the difference.

Ideally, for eval similarity testing you'd want (1) a static command allowing to get an engine's static eval for a position (2) a set of positions to evaluate, trimmed to only have objectively drawn positions (3) measure the similarity in position ordering.

[xr_a_y]

Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

I am not so sure that's true.

Here is a sim-test at depth=1 with the current NNUE engines.

http://rebel13.nl/dump/mysim.html

I expected 70-80% but.....

Didn't t you show some week ago that minicnnue is 86% like sf while minic is only 36%? It was just for opening position maybe?

[Tony P.]

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

When people talk about NNUE, I'm not always sure if they mean sparse nets in general or the exact architecture used in SF (it looks like you meant the latter, which is how I use the NNUE term too). The reuse of the exact network architecture is an originality killer indeed. The exploration of the general ideas of sparsity and dynamic inference resulting in original architecture(s) is, which is what you've been doing, is, on the contrary, a way of making an engine truly unique.

And what if NNUE trained on Ethereal games?

Don't give revenge ideas to Norman, please

[Rebel]

Maybe we will see an Ethereal NNUE engine in the near future.

Nope. NNUE is a one way ticket to kill the originality of the engine.

I am not so sure that's true.

Here is a sim-test at depth=1 with the current NNUE engines.

http://rebel13.nl/dump/mysim.html

I expected 70-80% but.....

Didn't t you show some week ago that minicnnue is 86% like sf while minic is only 36%? It was just for opening position maybe?

Yes, I remember. I will look into it, hoping I still have the data.