82nd Amateur Series Division 2

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Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:07 pm

82ND AMATEUR SERIES (Division 2)

Intel i5 Quad
ChessGUI
256mb hash each where possible
3-4-5 piece tablebases
Ponder off
SuperGM.cgb book
40 moves in 25 minutes repeating (adapted for the CCRL)
4 cycles 44 rounds
All engines 1CPU (64-bit where available)
The top engine will gain automatic promotion and the bottom engine will face automatic relegation. Any other changes of division will be at my discretion and may not necessarily involve playoff matches.
Participants

Defenchess 2.2 64-bit
RubiChess 1.8 64-bit
Andscacs 0.95 64-bit
Minic (latest)
Roc 1.7 64-bit
Lc0 0.26.2 w703810 64-bit
Pedone 2.1 64-bit
Arasan 22.1 64-bit
Vajolet2 2.8 64-bit
Demolito (latest)
Wasp 4.00 64-bit
Beef 0.3.6 64-bit


Games and standings will be available after every six rounds from the following link:
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... =7&t=12434

If you install TLCV (Tom's Live Chess Viewer) on your computer, you can watch the games live move by move. You'll also be able to chat to others following the tournament in the chatroom there.
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... p?id=42959
Host - GrahamCCRL.dyndns.org Port - 16002

Linux users can use Livius:
https://github.com/kmar/livius

There is also a Livius windows version.
It has live pv boards as a nice addition.
http://www.crabaware.com/livius/
gbanksnz at gmail.com

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xr_a_y
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: France

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by xr_a_y » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am

Wow, an ambitious division for Minic here !

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Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:27 am

xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am
Wow, an ambitious division for Minic here !
Using the Minic based net. :)
gbanksnz at gmail.com

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xr_a_y
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: France

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by xr_a_y » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:38 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:27 am
xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am
Wow, an ambitious division for Minic here !
Using the Minic based net. :)
Oh, so please be sure to name that engine Minic2.50NNUE-Nascent_Nutrient (or something like that) to ensure everyone knows and understand this is not Minic with standard evaluation and to identify the net well.

And please *do not use its rating in place of Minic one* on CCRL list. I really want to work on Minic with standard evaluation in a near future.
You can use it but as another engine or even another engine family (for instance MinicNNUE) or not showing it on the rating list at all is another good solution.

I really appreciate testing of MinicNNUE, but I really don't want it to be official "Minic".

Thanks a lot.

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Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:14 am

xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:38 am
Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:27 am
xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am
Wow, an ambitious division for Minic here !
Using the Minic based net. :)
Oh, so please be sure to name that engine Minic2.50NNUE-Nascent_Nutrient (or something like that) to ensure everyone knows and understand this is not Minic with standard evaluation and to identify the net well.

And please *do not use its rating in place of Minic one* on CCRL list. I really want to work on Minic with standard evaluation in a near future.
You can use it but as another engine or even another engine family (for instance MinicNNUE) or not showing it on the rating list at all is another good solution.

I really appreciate testing of MinicNNUE, but I really don't want it to be official "Minic".

Thanks a lot.
Would you prefer that we didn't test Minic with its net?
gbanksnz at gmail.com

User avatar
xr_a_y
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: France

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by xr_a_y » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:29 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:14 am
xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:38 am
Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:27 am
xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am
Wow, an ambitious division for Minic here !
Using the Minic based net. :)
Oh, so please be sure to name that engine Minic2.50NNUE-Nascent_Nutrient (or something like that) to ensure everyone knows and understand this is not Minic with standard evaluation and to identify the net well.

And please *do not use its rating in place of Minic one* on CCRL list. I really want to work on Minic with standard evaluation in a near future.
You can use it but as another engine or even another engine family (for instance MinicNNUE) or not showing it on the rating list at all is another good solution.

I really appreciate testing of MinicNNUE, but I really don't want it to be official "Minic".

Thanks a lot.
Would you prefer that we didn't test Minic with its net?
Testing it is fine and fun.
What I don't want is MinicNNUE to be rated in place of Minic. Rating both separately can be a compromise. Testing but not rating MinicNNUE is another one.

What is also very important, at least to me, is net identification in engine naming convention. For the testing, ratings, to be readable in some months/years, it is important to fully name the net that is in used (except for engines that use the one embeded inside the binary of course), in both testing matches and rating list. Another important consequence is that it gives credit to the net author.

Thanks

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Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:44 am

As it is part of the Minic family, if it was rated higher than the standard version, it would be marked as the top Minic in the list.

If you're not happy with that, it's best that we don't include the NNUE version in our lists at all.

I can include it in my tournaments, but the games won't be rated.
gbanksnz at gmail.com

User avatar
xr_a_y
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: France

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by xr_a_y » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:05 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:44 am
As it is part of the Minic family, if it was rated higher than the standard version, it would be marked as the top Minic in the list.

If you're not happy with that, it's best that we don't include the NNUE version in our lists at all.

I can include it in my tournaments, but the games won't be rated.
This is a good option indeed. The fun of testing, no worries about rating lists.

Unless NNUE becomes an external library soon, there is some 7000 lines of code inside MinicNNUE that are mostly copy/pasted from Stockfish official or Nodchip repositories. This is bigger than the number of lines in standard Minic !. NNUE technology being public domain and proper credit being given to Stockfish inside this code looks like it is somehow fine. But it is an issue for me. Whether MinicNNUE is Minic or Stockfish family in such condition isn't that clear probably. Let’s just let the dust settle before I decide what to do with this.

User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:12 am

xr_a_y wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:05 am
Graham Banks wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:44 am
As it is part of the Minic family, if it was rated higher than the standard version, it would be marked as the top Minic in the list.

If you're not happy with that, it's best that we don't include the NNUE version in our lists at all.

I can include it in my tournaments, but the games won't be rated.
This is a good option indeed. The fun of testing, no worries about rating lists.

Unless NNUE becomes an external library soon, there is some 7000 lines of code inside MinicNNUE that are mostly copy/pasted from Stockfish official or Nodchip repositories. This is bigger than the number of lines in standard Minic !. NNUE technology being public domain and proper credit being given to Stockfish inside this code looks like it is somehow fine. But it is an issue for me. Whether MinicNNUE is Minic or Stockfish family in such condition isn't that clear probably. Let’s just let the dust settle before I decide what to do with this.
No problem. :)
gbanksnz at gmail.com

User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 34537
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 82nd Amateur Series Division 2

Post by Graham Banks » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:58 pm

82ND AMATEUR SERIES (Division 2)

Intel i5 Quad
ChessGUI
256mb hash each where possible
3-4-5 piece tablebases
Ponder off
SuperGM.cgb book
40 moves in 25 minutes repeating (adapted for the CCRL)
4 cycles 44 rounds
All engines 1CPU (64-bit where available)
The top engine will gain automatic promotion and the bottom engine will face automatic relegation. Any other changes of division will be at my discretion and may not necessarily involve playoff matches.
Standings after Round 6

5.0 - Minic 2.50 NNUE 64-bit
4.5 - Roc 1.7 64-bit
4.0 - Demolito 2020-09-05 64-bit
3.5 - Pedone 2.1 64-bit
3.0 - Andscacs 0.95 64-bit
3.0 - Vajolet2 2.8 64-bit
3.0 - Defenchess 2.2 64-bit
2.5 - Arasan 22.1 64-bit
2.5 - Winter 0.9 64-bit
2.0 - RubiChess 1.8 64-bit
1.5 - Lc0 0.26.2 w703810 64-bit
1.5 - Wasp 4.00 64-bit


Games and standings will be available after every six rounds from the following link:
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... =7&t=12434

If you install TLCV (Tom's Live Chess Viewer) on your computer, you can watch the games live move by move. You'll also be able to chat to others following the tournament in the chatroom there.
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... p?id=42959
Host - GrahamCCRL.dyndns.org Port - 16002

Linux users can use Livius:
https://github.com/kmar/livius

There is also a Livius windows version.
It has live pv boards as a nice addition.
http://www.crabaware.com/livius/
gbanksnz at gmail.com

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