what is the secret of rybka

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swami
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by swami » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:26 pm

There's no link between him being new to this forum and the way he's being treated. It is the way he acts (and this kind of way to act is commonly associated with "newbies", but there are newbies that try a little harder).

If you don't understand our behaviour, I suggest you read that article on how to ask questions smartly that I mentioned in the other thread. There are some good explanations as to why "our" reactions are the way they are.
And be aware that we are not being rude (which behaviour seems to be justified in the article), but slightly more friendly by making jokes.

So: It could be worse!
Hi Nicolai,

I know how the CCC works :P but still some members are harsher than others, your post to him doesn't tell me that you are being harsh.I was just giving you examples about how newbies are being treated in general.

Regards.

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Graham Banks
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by Graham Banks » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:45 pm

nczempin wrote: If you don't understand our behaviour, I suggest you read that article on how to ask questions smartly that I mentioned in the other thread. There are some good explanations as to why "our" reactions are the way they are.
Hi Nicolai,

could you please post the link again. I deleted your post in error! :o

Sorry, Graham.

nczempin

Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by nczempin » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:18 pm

Graham Banks wrote:
nczempin wrote: If you don't understand our behaviour, I suggest you read that article on how to ask questions smartly that I mentioned in the other thread. There are some good explanations as to why "our" reactions are the way they are.
Hi Nicolai,

could you please post the link again. I deleted your post in error! :o

Sorry, Graham.
Woohoo! Ninja powers! :P
"With great power comes great responsibility"

Anyway, here's the link again:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way.


If you want to add some kind of post to the original context, feel free to do so.

My aim in posting it was twofold:
1. To help kaustubh (and possibly other "newbies") to understand why we react the way we do to his questions.
2. To help kaustubh (and possibly other "newbies") to phrase his/their questions in a way that they will be taken seriously, with much less of a chance of "us" wasting our and his time on stupid jokes, let alone any derision (I hope that's a word :-)).

kaustubh

Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by kaustubh » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:53 am

Thanks nicolai for your help.

kaustubh

mjlef
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by mjlef » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:36 am

I think the secret to Rybka is it makes the size of a subtree proportional to the probability the move at the top of this subtree will be found best. I.E. a very efficient search. Now HOW Vas does this, I have no idea! Thousands of hours or trying things and some fancy statistical analysis. he is a mathematician, afterall.

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Ovyron
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by Ovyron » Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:19 am

Her secret is that she takes some high end measures to know the real quality of her moves, and that causes her weakest moves to be very good already.

Also, when she is at a better position, she plays flawlessly, and since her opponents don't play like this, even very few slight errors are punished greatly (Unless a bug comes into the way) so you can see a demolition happen within five moves.

As it's been said, the power of an engine depends heavily on the quality of its weakest moves.

Michael Sherwin
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by Michael Sherwin » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:49 pm

Ovyron wrote:Her secret is that she takes some high end measures to know the real quality of her moves, and that causes her weakest moves to be very good already.
This is a rather commital declaration. How do you know?
Regards,
Mike

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Ovyron
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by Ovyron » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:43 pm

I think I forgot to say "I think that...".

I think that, based on my experience at looking at Rybka's moves, and the amount of time it uses examining the move she's going to play relative to the time she takes examining the other moves.

For example, if A, B and C are good moves, Rybka will use most of her resources just on move A (If that's the move she considered first) and some on move B, but almost no resources will be given to move C unless something goes wrong on A and B.

I also think that's why Rybka plays (relatively) bad the opening when she's bookless, for example, in d4 d5 openings in where she may want to play Nc3/Nc6 and gets stuck with that for a very long time, just because she used most of her time getting sure that those moves are good enough.

That may also be the reason that she sometimes takes a lot of time to find the best move on a given position, she was "wasting" her time evaluating something else, and getting sure it was good enough (Hence "real quality") before analyzing deeply the better move.

That's just my opinion, sorry if it sounded like I was giving facts before.

mjlef
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by mjlef » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:20 am

Searching on the web for Rybka information I found a Chinese page with fascinating information. Here is a translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... uage_tools

I really like advice 'like "eat like soldiers" and "horse-bottom line soldiers"!

:-)

Mark[/url]

wgarvin
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Re: what is the secret of rybka

Post by wgarvin » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm

mjlef (Mark Lefler) wrote:I really like advice 'like "eat like soldiers" and "horse-bottom line soldiers"!
Is anyone able to provide a human translation? When I have time, I will read this with interest.
Pruning can not, then we will find our search, the large number of nodes, ah, gosh, the terrible waste of Search

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