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Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:32 am
by Tony Thomas
WinPooh wrote:nczempin wrote:We all know the secret, and we are conspiring to keep it from you.
To say more, all chess programmers conspired not to write engines stronger than Rybka.
If they do the chess god will be mad at them. Not only that the chessgod will kick out the chess devil (whom Vas sold his soul to) from Vasik Rajlich's slender body and take the place and make a 50000 elo chess engine.
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:00 am
by nczempin
Tony Thomas wrote:WinPooh wrote:nczempin wrote:We all know the secret, and we are conspiring to keep it from you.
To say more, all chess programmers conspired not to write engines stronger than Rybka.
If they do the chess god will be mad at them. Not only that the chessgod will kick out the chess devil (whom Vas sold his soul to) from Vasik Rajlich's slender body and take the place and make a 50000 elo chess engine.
Exactly. Finally someone who understands me.
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:16 am
by Daniel Mehrmann
kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:30 pm
by Gerd Isenberg
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
i agree that Kaustubh's questions are unsophisticated - but far from nonsense. Please consider cultural diversity and probably adolescent greenness.
On the Rybka topic, your answer is unsophisticated as well - what is a normal chess engine. Since it is a secret, only Vasik knows - anything else are rumors and speculations.
Cheers,
Gerd
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:35 pm
by Uri Blass
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:05 pm
by Eelco de Groot
Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
I agree Uri. There is no way Rybka can be so strong in her QSearch or whatever form of it that Vasik has implemented, by just having more knowledge about material imbalances. At least I don't think it is possible. It is not much more than a guess but maybe a superior evaluation can get two plies deeper out of the Alpha-Beta search alone - and I think that would be a fantastic result if it is actually true! -, if Allessandro's and other's experiments would translate to Rybka and going to bitbases would help too. But I don't think that is enough. Just my opinion but I think that would be too easy.
Eelco
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:10 pm
by Daniel Mehrmann
Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
Did i ever said its only the evaluation ?
I just said she gets the most points from her evaluation. Of course Rybka has a very good pruning and a margin technics which are very well tuned, but basicly she's doing the same like movei in search. (from technics view)
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:13 pm
by Uri Blass
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
Did i ever said its only the evaluation ?
I just said she gets the most points from her evaluation. Of course Rybka has a very good pruning and a margin technics which are very well tuned, but basicly she's doing the same like movei in search. (from technics view)
I think that basically she does better than movei both in search and evaluation.
I am not sure if most of the difference in playing strength is because of better evaluation.
Edit:
for your question you used the word "only" that suggested it is the only reason for her strength.
quote:
"The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board."
Uri
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:21 pm
by Daniel Mehrmann
Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
Did i ever said its only the evaluation ?
I just said she gets the most points from her evaluation. Of course Rybka has a very good pruning and a margin technics which are very well tuned, but basicly she's doing the same like movei in search. (from technics view)
I think that basically she does better than movei both in search and evaluation.
I am not sure if most of the difference in playing strength is because of better evaluation.
Edit:
for your question you used the word "only" that suggested it is the only reason for her strength.
quote:
"The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board."
Uri
But this says not that her search is weak compared to other top engines. Its more or less equal compared with top engines. Vas isn't using unknown or new search technics. He just tuned the well known public technics.
Best,
Daniel
Re: what is the secret of rybka
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:25 pm
by Daniel Mehrmann
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Uri Blass wrote:Daniel Mehrmann wrote:kaustubh wrote:What is the secret of rybka , why is it so strong from the first version
I don't saw so much nonsense (technical view) in one thread and also the question is nonsense. if I'm looking to your other questions here, in this sub
forum, i'm not getting smart about your person.
Rybka is a normal chessengine like Shredder, Fruit and Loop. She used all things like other engines too. The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board.
So, you can call this Rybka's secret.
Best,
Daniel
I think that rybka has superior search than most engines and it is not correct to claim that the only reason that rybka is strong is her evaluation.
Uri
Did i ever said its only the evaluation ?
I just said she gets the most points from her evaluation. Of course Rybka has a very good pruning and a margin technics which are very well tuned, but basicly she's doing the same like movei in search. (from technics view)
I think that basically she does better than movei both in search and evaluation.
I am not sure if most of the difference in playing strength is because of better evaluation.
Edit:
for your question you used the word "only" that suggested it is the only reason for her strength.
quote:
"The only thing why she is so strong is her very very well tuned evaluation based on material on the board."
Uri
But this says not that her search is weak compared to other top engines. Its more or less equal compared with top engines. Vas isn't using unknown or new search technics. He just tuned the well known public technics.
At all i must say Vasik does an impressive job.
Best,
Daniel