Annual reminder

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Rebel
Posts: 4885
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

Annual reminder

Post by Rebel » Sun May 24, 2015 9:49 pm

In case you are new to chess programming (welcome!) then surely you are aware of the ongoing controversy regarding cloning of open sources, taking ideas and/or code from others, the so called ethics of a chess programmer.

In the past a large part of the chess programmers community (currently 38) have subscribed to an ethical code of honor in which transparency about the origin is much more important than the origin itself.

As such we offer you the chance to become a member of the programmer code of honor via: [ http://www.top-5000.nl/programmer_code.htm ] and describe your work.

I wish you a good ELO hunt but most of all the feeling of satisfaction our creative hobby gives.

Joost Buijs
Posts: 1008
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:47 am
Location: Almere, The Netherlands

Re: Annual reminder

Post by Joost Buijs » Mon May 25, 2015 5:55 am

I tried to subscribe to your code of honor, but my entry does not appear in the list. I assume you have to review and add it by hand?
Otherwise there went something wrong because I didn't get any confirmation and the entry window disappeared in a microsecond when I pressed the submit button.

Joost

flok

Re: Annual reminder

Post by flok » Mon May 25, 2015 6:13 am

I'm not going to sign it with the current extra declarations.
I'm willing to declare that all of my chess programs are 100% my own work (well except 3 lines I stole from fairymax) but I'm not going to sign something that has not been reviewed by an apropriate lawyer.

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Rebel
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Re: Annual reminder

Post by Rebel » Mon May 25, 2015 6:39 am

Joost Buijs wrote:I tried to subscribe to your code of honor, but my entry does not appear in the list. I assume you have to review and add it by hand?
Otherwise there went something wrong because I didn't get any confirmation and the entry window disappeared in a microsecond when I pressed the submit button.

Joost
Hi Joost,

Your entry is received in good condition, it needs a manual touch, I will do it ASAP probably today and I will notify you when done.

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Rebel
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

Re: Annual reminder

Post by Rebel » Mon May 25, 2015 6:47 am

Hi Folkert,
flok wrote:I'm not going to sign it with the current extra declarations.
Out of curiosity, any particular sentence you have in mind?
I'm willing to declare that all of my chess programs are 100% my own work (well except 3 lines I stole from fairymax)
haha :lol:
but I'm not going to sign something that has not been reviewed by an apropriate lawyer.
Understood.

Henk
Posts: 5884
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

Re: Annual reminder

Post by Henk » Mon May 25, 2015 7:09 am

1) All my original ideas don't work for they only cost ELO.
2) There is nothing original about alpha beta, Null move, LMR, SEE. So Skipper is not original.

Better first define what originality is. Or define levels or degrees of originality. It is orginal compared to ... Or more original than ..

If you read ideas on the internet how can you be original.

Henk
Posts: 5884
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

Re: Annual reminder

Post by Henk » Mon May 25, 2015 7:39 am

Even if someone copied Stockfish and give it a nice name and distribute it, they are doing something very useful in my opinion. The market place in the city always smells like rotten fish.

Aleks Peshkov
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Annual reminder

Post by Aleks Peshkov » Mon May 25, 2015 7:46 am

Sorry, if it sounds rude.

With all respects I do not understand the reason why the closed source engine of the past author is acting as an Open Source police chief.

flok

Re: Annual reminder

Post by flok » Mon May 25, 2015 12:13 pm

Hi Ed,
Rebel wrote:
flok wrote:I'm not going to sign it with the current extra declarations.
Out of curiosity, any particular sentence you have in mind?
First of all: I got a bit cautious with signing things after I got screwed over by a former employer.

1. this probably won't damage the signer, but what if the other programmer has passed away? do we wait until his legal copyright period is over? and what about countries where this doesn't apply?

2. the whole idea of reverse engineering (for me) is that you try to figure out how something works without help of the original developer. ianal but at least in the netherlands you're allowed to do so.

3. this is a tricky one. The problem with this is that it is vague. That is "widely recognized, standard, and present in the chess programming Wiki". Who devices what is widlely recognized/standard? And present in the programming wiki: anyone can add and remove at will from it.
Rebel wrote:
I'm willing to declare that all of my chess programs are 100% my own work (well except 3 lines I stole from fairymax)
haha :lol:
I had trouble to get time-management right, e.g. working on real chess servers. So I copied that.

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Rebel
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Re: Annual reminder

Post by Rebel » Mon May 25, 2015 4:49 pm

flok wrote:Hi Ed,
Rebel wrote:
flok wrote:I'm not going to sign it with the current extra declarations.
Out of curiosity, any particular sentence you have in mind?
First of all: I got a bit cautious with signing things after I got screwed over by a former employer.

1. this probably won't damage the signer, but what if the other programmer has passed away? do we wait until his legal copyright period is over? and what about countries where this doesn't apply?

2. the whole idea of reverse engineering (for me) is that you try to figure out how something works without help of the original developer. ianal but at least in the netherlands you're allowed to do so.

3. this is a tricky one. The problem with this is that it is vague. That is "widely recognized, standard, and present in the chess programming Wiki". Who devices what is widlely recognized/standard? And present in the programming wiki: anyone can add and remove at will from it.
Rebel wrote:
I'm willing to declare that all of my chess programs are 100% my own work (well except 3 lines I stole from fairymax)
haha :lol:
I had trouble to get time-management right, e.g. working on real chess servers. So I copied that.
Firstly, the whole idea of the programmer code is a signal to the chess programmer community how we see our hobby, it's not a 24 page lawyer approved contract. Those who sign can always contact me for removal.

Secondly and equally important, there is no single objection for programmers who want to start (or started) from an open source. In fact it's an encouragement to sign it for transparency reasons to avoid all kind of speculations and accusations.

Regarding reverse enginering, it's forbidden by EU law [ but the law prohibits use of the knowledge gained, in a way that prejudices the rightsholder's position or legitimate interests (for example, reverse engineering performed to create a competing product). ]

As for the general principle against RE consider, in science novelty rules as in CC as its history has proven, those with novelty have reached the top. For that reason we find it unethical to steal the novelty via RE. But as an exception you can of course ask the programmer.

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