Possible "real" hash collision

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xr_a_y
Posts: 733
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Possible "real" hash collision

Post by xr_a_y » Wed May 22, 2019 5:01 am

In a recent game, Minic totally blunder a move in this position, playing Kh2

[d] 8/2r4n/3p2k1/3Pp3/1p2P1P1/pP4PK/P4QB1/1r6 w - - 2 41

The full game is here https://lichess.org/zXbSnZll

The blunder cannot be reproduced with both 0.57 version or dev version and Minic always plays Qf5 with a drawish score.

Playing black after the crazy Kh2, Minic immediatly see the good move for black, but with a draw score

Code: Select all

 27 0 571 6588343 50 1153 587    c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 h2g3 a1g1 c2c8 g5e4 g3h2 g1e1 g2e4 e1e4 c8g8 g6h6 g8h8 h6g6 h8e8 f4f7 e8g8 g6f6 g8d8 f6g7 d8g5 g7h8 h2g3 h8h7 g5d8 f7g7 d8h4 h7g8 h4d8 g8h7 d8h4 h7g8 h4d8 g8h7 d8h4 h7g8 h4d8 g8h7 
The log confirms that this is not a TC issue and during the game, Minic first find Qf5 but at depth 7 go for Kh2 until depth 30 with a totally strange PV

Code: Select all

 30 0 8249 194110681 	h3h2 b1b2 f2f5 g6g7 f5e6 c7c2 e6d7 g7f8 d7h7 c2g2 h2h1 b2a2 h7f5 f8g7 f5d7 g7g8 d7d6 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1 
Do you have some hypothesis ?

mar
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by mar » Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am

9 of 9 "real" hash collisions are either a fantasies or bugs
why do you think kh2 a blunder? the position is lost anyway
Martin Sedlak

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xr_a_y
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by xr_a_y » Wed May 22, 2019 5:32 am

mar wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
9 of 9 "real" hash collisions are either a fantasies or bugs
why do you think kh2 a blunder? the position is lost anyway
I agree, it shall be a bug :roll: , but the position is not lost, it is drawish according to stockfish.
After Kh2, is it immediately a lose.

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xr_a_y
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by xr_a_y » Wed May 22, 2019 5:40 am

Minic is totally stuck in delaying checks

mar
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by mar » Wed May 22, 2019 7:33 am

xr_a_y wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:32 am
but the position is not lost, it is drawish according to stockfish.
After Kh2, is it immediately a lose.
You're right, I was looking at the second Kh2, sorry.
Could it be that minic simply played too fast? How much time was spent on the move?
Martin Sedlak

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flok
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by flok » Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am

mar wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
9 of 9 "real" hash collisions are either a fantasies or bugs
why do you think kh2 a blunder? the position is lost anyway
If they don't exist, why then verify the tt-move?
www.vanheusden.com: Micah / Embla / PuppetMaster / DeepBrutePos / Pos / Feeks

mar
Posts: 1992
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by mar » Wed May 22, 2019 10:31 am

flok wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am
If they don't exist, why then verify the tt-move?
maybe because of race conditions when multiple threads work on shared TT?
(I'm paranoid enough to do it in single-threaded search as well because my makemove would crash on invalid move)

the effect of hash collisions along with the impact on root move selection has been studied in the past by Bob and Cozzie http://www.craftychess.com/hyatt/collisions.html

it's extremely unlikely that a random hash collision would make your engine blunder at root

people often blame hash collisions for bugs, you can as well blame cosmic rays or even proton decay, it's still your bug in your engine that needs fixing
(or it's no problem at all and you draw wrong conclusions)
Martin Sedlak

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flok
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by flok » Wed May 22, 2019 10:32 am

mar wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:31 am
flok wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am
If they don't exist, why then verify the tt-move?
maybe because of race conditions when multiple threads work on shared TT?
(I'm paranoid enough to do it in single-threaded search as well because my makemove would crash on invalid move)

the effect of hash collisions along with the impact on root move selection has been studied in the past by Bob and Cozzie http://www.craftychess.com/hyatt/collisions.html

it's extremely unlikely that a random hash collision would make your engine blunder at root[/root]

Yes but it may crash your program. E.g. by referring to empty positions.
www.vanheusden.com: Micah / Embla / PuppetMaster / DeepBrutePos / Pos / Feeks

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xr_a_y
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by xr_a_y » Wed May 22, 2019 12:12 pm

mar wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:33 am
xr_a_y wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:32 am
but the position is not lost, it is drawish according to stockfish.
After Kh2, is it immediately a lose.
You're right, I was looking at the second Kh2, sorry.
Could it be that minic simply played too fast? How much time was spent on the move?
oh no, Minic deeply think of it before making the move ....

Code: Select all

Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: XBoard: mode 0
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: XBoard: stm  0
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Thinking...
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: depth          64
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: msecPerMove     -1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: msecInTC        1800000
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: msecInc         0
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: nbMoveInTC      40
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: msecUntilNextTC 1802460
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: currentNbMoves  41
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: TC mode, xboard
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: currentMoveMs  44986
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Position
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | | | | | | | | |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | | |r| | | | |n|
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | | | |p| | |k| |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | | | |P|p| | | |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | |p| | |P| |P| |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # |p|P| | | | |P|K|
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # |P| | | | |Q|B| |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # | |r| | | | | | |
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # wk h3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # bk g6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Turn white
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Phase 0.468003
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Static score 227
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Hash 10120985343957484277
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # FEN 8/2r4n/3p2k1/3Pp3/1p2P1P1/pP4PK/P4QB1/1r6 w - - 2 41
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search Sync
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Wait for workers to be ready
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: ...ok
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Calling main thread search
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search launched 0
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Starting worker 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Starting worker 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Starting worker 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search called
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: requested time  44986
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: requested depth 64
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init stat
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search launched 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: helper thread waiting ... 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search launched 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: helper thread waiting ... 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init killers
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init history
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Search launched 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: helper thread waiting ... 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init counter
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Thread 0 searching depth 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 1 317 0 168551769 	f2f5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Thread 0 searching depth 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 2 332 0 168551829 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Thread 0 searching depth 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 3 304 0 168551954 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 c7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Thread 0 searching depth 4
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 4 0 0 168552405 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 b1b2 g4g5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: ... go for id 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init stat
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init killers
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init history
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: ... go for id 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init stat
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init killers
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init history
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-571: Init counter
WM_TimeLagEngine() says TimeLagReturn 0000000518638315 SystemLag LagTo 0000000518636080 0000000518636471
WM_TimeLagEngine() : To = 391 ms, From = 1844 ms, Total = 2235 ms
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- Pipe01Time 0000000518638471
Exact move time for Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU 
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: ... go for id 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Init stat
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Init killers
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Init history
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 0 searching depth 5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Init counter
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 1 searching depth 2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..169
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 2 searching depth 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Init counter
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 1 searching depth 4
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 3 searching depth 1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 2 searching depth 3
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 3 searching depth 4
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 1 searching depth 6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 2 searching depth 5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 5 155 0 1274 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 b1b2 g4g5 b2a2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 141..281
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 0 searching depth 6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 3 searching depth 5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 118..211
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 127..155
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 127..155
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 56..155
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 54..164
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 67..141
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha -42..109
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha -22..104
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 2 searching depth 7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 3 searching depth 8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha -23..141
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha -9..105
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..62
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -23..200
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -9..200
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..141
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..22
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..81
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..203
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -9..256
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -23..256
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..158
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -9..343
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -23..343
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 1 searching depth 8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 6 261 0 4736 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 b1b2 f5e6 b2a2 e6d6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 0 searching depth 7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..223
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 230..261
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 226..261
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 200..243
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 163..221
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..278
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta 230..286
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta -8..310
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 2 searching depth 9
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 7 270 0 11155 	h3h2 c7f7 f2b6 b1a1 b6b4 a1a2 b4d6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 0 searching depth 8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window beta 163..278
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 241..270
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 59..220
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 214..255
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 142..234
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Increase window alpha 43..188
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 1 searching depth 10
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 3 searching depth 9
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 8 91 0 16525 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1b2 c2c8 b2a2 c8e6 f7f6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:39-884: Thread 0 searching depth 9
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window alpha 247..270
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..136
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..116
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..127
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window alpha 224..258
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..159
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..173
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Thread 3 searching depth 12
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 9 152 209 20158 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1b2 c2c6 b2a2 c6d6 h7f6 g4g5 f7h7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Thread 0 searching depth 10
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window alpha 187..241
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window alpha 117..214
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..140
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 83..185
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Thread 2 searching depth 11
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 144..175
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Thread 1 searching depth 12
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 144..198
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-978: Increase window beta 144..234
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 152..176
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 88..189
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 129..164
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 154..176
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 130..152
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 93..146
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha -1..138
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window beta -1..274
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 107..141
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:41-993: Increase window alpha 36..119
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 127..165
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 10 182 212 97107 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 b1a1 f5f2 h7f6 h2h3 c7c8 g2f3 a1b1 f2a7 g7g6 h3h2
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Thread 0 searching depth 11
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 136..182
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 103..159
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 91..146
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 67..131
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 10..99
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha 34..118
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window alpha -50..77
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-009: Increase window beta 10..191
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-025: Increase window alpha 70..124
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-025: Increase window alpha 14..97
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-025: Increase window alpha -53..76
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-040: Increase window alpha -72..55
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-040: Increase window alpha -121..100
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-056: Increase window beta -121..311
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-056: Increase window beta -50..217
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-071: Thread 2 searching depth 13
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 11 0 218 260444 	f2f5 g6g7 h3h2 b1b2 f5e6 c7c2 e6d7 g7h8 d7d8 h8g7 d8e7 g7g8 e7e6 g8g7 e6d7 g7h8 d7d8 h8g7 d8e7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-071: Emergency mode activated : 0 < 102
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-071: Thread 0 searching depth 12
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-071: Increase window beta -8..32
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-071: Increase window beta -8..55
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-087: Increase window beta -8..32
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 12 9 220 297304 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 g5f3 h2g3 f3e1 c2d2 e1g2 d2b4 a1a2 b4d6 g6g7 d6e5
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-087: Thread 0 searching depth 13
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-087: Increase window beta 1..31
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-087: Thread 3 searching depth 13
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-087: Thread 1 searching depth 14
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-103: Thread 3 searching depth 16
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-103: Increase window alpha -22..16
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-103: Thread 1 searching depth 16
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:42-103: Increase window beta -8..55
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Increase window beta -22..52
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Thread 3 searching depth 17
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Thread 1 searching depth 18
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Increase window beta -8..91
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Increase window beta -22..108
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 13 12 357 575925 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2e2 g6g7 e2c2 f4g4 c2c8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Thread 0 searching depth 14
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Thread 2 searching depth 15
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Increase window alpha -10..12
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-462: Increase window alpha 33..55
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-478: Increase window alpha 9..44
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-478: Increase window alpha -27..26
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 14 4 359 609752 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2e2 g6g7 h2g3 g7g6 g3h2 g6g7 h2g3 g7g6 g3h4 a1g1
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-478: Thread 0 searching depth 15
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 15 0 359 615249 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2c6 g5e4 c6e8 g6g7 g2e4 f4e4 e8d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6e7 g7g6 e7e6 g6g7 e6e7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-478: Thread 0 searching depth 16
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 16 0 359 618318 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2c6 g5e4 c6e8 g6g7 g2e4 f4e4 e8d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6d7 g7h6 d7e6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-478: Thread 0 searching depth 17
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-509: Thread 3 searching depth 20
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 17 0 362 673586 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2c6 g5e4 c6e8 g6g7 g2e4 f4e4 e8d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6d7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-509: Thread 0 searching depth 18
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-509: Thread 2 searching depth 17
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-525: Thread 2 searching depth 19
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-556: Thread 1 searching depth 20
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 18 0 368 835603 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 g4g5 h7g5 g3g4 f7f4 c2c6 g5e4 c6e8 g6g7 g2e4 f4e4 e8d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6d7 g7h6 d7e6 h6g7 e6d7 g7h6 d7e6
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-571: Thread 0 searching depth 19
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 19 0 378 1085418 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-665: Thread 0 searching depth 20
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-681: Thread 2 searching depth 21
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-837: Thread 3 searching depth 21
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 20 0 396 1500642 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-853: Thread 0 searching depth 21
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:43-946: Thread 1 searching depth 22
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:44-087: Thread 2 searching depth 23
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:44-103: Thread 3 searching depth 24
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 21 0 432 2403425 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:44-212: Thread 0 searching depth 22
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:44-400: Thread 1 searching depth 24
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 22 0 451 2871611 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:44-400: Thread 0 searching depth 23
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:45-056: Thread 2 searching depth 25
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 23 0 517 4517708 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:45-056: Thread 0 searching depth 24
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:45-540: Thread 3 searching depth 25
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:45-540: Thread 1 searching depth 26
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 24 0 604 6532378 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:45-931: Thread 0 searching depth 25
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:46-509: Thread 3 searching depth 28
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 25 0 664 7977658 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:46-525: Thread 0 searching depth 26
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:47-103: Thread 2 searching depth 27
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:47-743: Thread 1 searching depth 28
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 26 0 785 10912151 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:49-056: Thread 0 searching depth 27
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:49-212: Thread 2 searching depth 29
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 27 0 959 14321038 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8e8 a1a2 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:49-478: Thread 0 searching depth 28
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:52-087: Thread 1 searching depth 30
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:52-259: Thread 3 searching depth 29
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:53-150: Thread 2 searching depth 31
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 28 0 1384 24695134 	h3h2 c7f7 f2c2 b1a1 c2c8 h7g5 c8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8 f7g7 g8e8 g7f7 e8g8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:53-728: Thread 0 searching depth 29
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:47:54-478: Thread 3 searching depth 32
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 29 0 3800 84760924 	h3h2 b1b2 f2f5 g6g7 f5e6 c7c2 e6d7 g7f8 d7h7 c2g2 h2h1 b2a2 h7h8 f8f7 h8h7 f7f8 h7h8 f8f7 h8h7 f7f8 h7h8 f8f7 h8h7 f7f8
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:48:17-884: Thread 0 searching depth 30
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- # Info  2019-05-21 18:48:18-415: Thread 1 searching depth 32
Eng01 (Minic 0.57 64-bit 4CPU) <- 30 0 8249 194110681 	h3h2 b1b2 f2f5 g6g7 f5e6 c7c2 e6d7 g7f8 d7h7 c2g2 h2h1 b2a2 h7f5 f8g7 f5d7 g7g8 d7d6 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1 g2h2 h1g1 h2g2 g1h1

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hgm
Posts: 23620
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:06 am
Location: Amsterdam
Full name: H G Muller
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Re: Possible "real" hash collision

Post by hgm » Wed May 22, 2019 1:50 pm

flok wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am
mar wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
9 of 9 "real" hash collisions are either a fantasies or bugs
why do you think kh2 a blunder? the position is lost anyway
If they don't exist, why then verify the tt-move?
There is a huge difference between a key collision that just gives a wrong score, which then has a million in 1 chance of propagating all the way to the root and affect the move there, and a key collision that crashes the engine. The latter you will always notice at the root, no matter where in the tree it happens.

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