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### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:32 pm**

by **MikeB**

xr_a_y wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:14 pm

is there a worst position than this one

[d] 3Q4/1Q4Q1/4Q3/2Q4R/Q4Q2/3Q4/1Q4Rp/1K1BBNNk w - - 0 1

218 pseudo legal moves ?

Yes that's the one. Real world, from real games , not proof games, the record as far I know is 79 moves. I performed a search once , using a move generator on 1 million games and found a game with 78 possible moves . I posted the game here, years ago - maybe 10 to 13 years ago.

The real game record:

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/records/re ... d%20pieces

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:50 pm**

by **JohnWoe**

Logged Sapeli's maximum moves from standard games against Fairy:

https://pastebin.com/HU2CQvZm
79 moves is the maximum currently.

I think 128 is plenty for gameplay. For analyzing 256 is bullet proof.

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:17 pm**

by **xr_a_y**

JohnWoe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Logged Sapeli's maximum moves from standard games against Fairy:

https://pastebin.com/HU2CQvZm
79 moves is the maximum currently.

I think 128 is plenty for gameplay. For analyzing 256 is bullet proof.

I agree. I really don't know how I've came up with the 512 initially ...

### Re: Maximum number of pseudo legal moves.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:58 pm**

by **Ajedrecista**

Hello Mike:

MikeB wrote:[...] Real world, from real games , not proof games, the record as far I know is 79 moves. I performed a search once , using a move generator on 1 million games and found a game with 78 possible moves . I posted the game here, years ago - maybe 10 to 13 years ago.

The real game record:

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/records/re ... d%20pieces

I downloaded CCRL 40/4 games (CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn, so 2047025 games) and I found positions with perft(1) > 79. There is at least one position in this PGN with perft(1) = 85 because I saw that info while the fantastic tool

**joined** was running, before it was overwritten by other position with perft(1) = 89 and later by others with perft(1) = 98, perft(1) = 102 and perft(1) = 124. There might be other positions found later with 79 < perft(1) =< 124:

Code: Select all

```
.\joined>joined -h
Illegal option: h !
Usage: joined [<*.PGN, *.FEN or *.EPD file>] [-<options>]
Legal options are:
-p : Print messages to both stderr and stdout
-q : Quit after scanning input file
-r : Initial value for random algorithm
-s : Print messages only to stdout
-v<number>: Set verbose level to <number> (default 4)
The numbers may be added. The numbers are:
1: Print PGN
2: Calculate number of legal moves in all positions
4: Print progress (default)
8: Print all warnings
16: Check PGN
32: Report result = '*'
64: Get statistics on all types of moves
***** Error exit *****
.\joined>joined -q -v6 CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn
Scanning file CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn containing 2324578752 bytes !
[...]
Read 2047025 games with 282012002 moves, 53150521 lines, 2324578752 bytes !
Got max. 799 moves in game 1013473 before line 26659054 !
Got 3536229011 legal moves in 284059027 positons !
Got max. 124 legal moves after move 288 in game 892029 line 23469623 !
```

Verbose level -v6 is 2 + 4 = 6 ('Calculate number of legal moves in all positions' and 'Print progress').

Since I can only track the position with the maximum[perft(1)], the game where it arose is the following one:

The position with perft(1) = 124 is the next one just after 288 plies, as reported by

**joined**:

[d]5Q2/1QRB3k/4R3/3QQ3/3Q4/4Q3/4QK2/8 w - - 3 145

Which perft(1) = 124 was verified by

**JetChess** perft counter:

Code: Select all

```
JetChess 1.0.0.0:
5Q2/1QRB3k/4R3/3QQ3/3Q4/4Q3/4QK2/8 w - - 3 145
perft(1) = 124
--------------
1 Qe2-d3
2 Qe2-c4
3 Qe2-b5
4 Qe2-a6
5 Qe2-f3
6 Qe2-g4
7 Qe2-h5
8 Qe2-f1
9 Qe2-d1
10 Qe2-d2
11 Qe2-c2
12 Qe2-b2
13 Qe2-a2
14 Qe2-e1
15 Qe3-f4
16 Qe3-g5
17 Qe3-h6
18 Qe3-d2
19 Qe3-c1
20 Qe3-e4
21 Qe3-f3
22 Qe3-g3
23 Qe3-h3
24 Qe3-d3
25 Qe3-c3
26 Qe3-b3
27 Qe3-a3
28 Qd4-c5
29 Qd4-b6
30 Qd4-a7
31 Qd4-c3
32 Qd4-b2
33 Qd4-a1
34 Qd4-e4
35 Qd4-f4
36 Qd4-g4
37 Qd4-h4
38 Qd4-c4
39 Qd4-b4
40 Qd4-a4
41 Qd4-d3
42 Qd4-d2
43 Qd4-d1
44 Qd5-c6
45 Qd5-e4
46 Qd5-f3
47 Qd5-g2
48 Qd5-h1
49 Qd5-c4
50 Qd5-b3
51 Qd5-a2
52 Qd5-d6
53 Qd5-c5
54 Qd5-b5
55 Qd5-a5
56 Qe5-d6
57 Qe5-f6
58 Qe5-g7
59 Qe5-h8
60 Qe5-f4
61 Qe5-g3
62 Qe5-h2
63 Qe5-f5
64 Qe5-g5
65 Qe5-h5
66 Qe5-e4
67 Qb7-a8
68 Qb7-c8
69 Qb7-c6
70 Qb7-a6
71 Qb7-b8
72 Qb7-a7
73 Qb7-b6
74 Qb7-b5
75 Qb7-b4
76 Qb7-b3
77 Qb7-b2
78 Qb7-b1
79 Qf8-g7
80 Qf8-h6
81 Qf8-e7
82 Qf8-d6
83 Qf8-c5
84 Qf8-b4
85 Qf8-a3
86 Qf8-g8
87 Qf8-h8
88 Qf8-e8
89 Qf8-d8
90 Qf8-c8
91 Qf8-b8
92 Qf8-a8
93 Qf8-f7
94 Qf8-f6
95 Qf8-f5
96 Qf8-f4
97 Qf8-f3
98 Re6-e7
99 Re6-e8
100 Re6-f6
101 Re6-g6
102 Re6-h6
103 Re6-d6
104 Re6-c6
105 Re6-b6
106 Re6-a6
107 Rc7-c8
108 Rc7-c6
109 Rc7-c5
110 Rc7-c4
111 Rc7-c3
112 Rc7-c2
113 Rc7-c1
114 Bd7-c8
115 Bd7-e8
116 Bd7-c6
117 Bd7-b5
118 Bd7-a4
119 Kf2-g2
120 Kf2-f3
121 Kf2-g3
122 Kf2-e1
123 Kf2-f1
124 Kf2-g1
```

It is a real game since it is not a composition, although the level of the engines was really low. To force a threefold repetition with the winning side in a KQQQQQQRRB-vs-k position has its merit.

This task can be repeated with CCRL 40/40 games, CEGT, SSDF and so on. I chose CCRL 40/4 for its high amount of games.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:10 pm**

by **Dann Corbit**

Here is a fun one for you, a position with 205 best moves:

The best moves are:

Ba3 Bb2 Bd2 Be3 Bf4 Bg5 Kc2 Kd2 Ke1 Ke2 Ne1+ Nf4+ Nfe3 Ng3 Nge3+ Nh4+ Nxh2 Q3d4 Q3d5 Q3d6 Q3d7 Q6g7 Q7g6 Q7g7 Q8d4 Q8d5 Q8d6 Q8d7 Qaa1 Qaa3 Qaa4 Qaa5 Qaa6 Qab1 Qab2 Qab3 Qac2 Qac4 Qad2 Qad5 Qae2 Qae6 Qaf7 Qag8 Qba3 Qba4 Qba5 Qbb1 Qbb2 Qbb3 Qbb5 Qbb6 Qbb7 Qbb8 Qbc3 Qbc4 Qbc5 Qbd2 Qbd4 Qbd6 Qbe1 Qbe4 Qbe7 Qbf4 Qbf8 Qca4 Qca6 Qca8 Qcb5 Qcb6 Qcb7 Qcc2 Qcc3 Qcc4 Qcc5 Qcc7 Qcc8 Qcd5 Qcd6 Qcd7 Qce4 Qce6 Qce8 Qcf3 Qcf6 Qcg6 Qda3 Qda5 Qda6 Qda8 Qdb1 Qdb3 Qdb5 Qdb6 Qdb8 Qdc2 Qdc3 Qdc4 Qdc7 Qdc8 Qdd2 Qde2 Qde3 Qde4 Qde7 Qde8 Qdf3 Qdf5 Qdf6 Qdf8 Qdg3 Qdg5 Qdg6 Qdg8 Qdh3 Qdh4 Qdh8 Qea1 Qea5 Qeb2 Qeb5 Qeb8 Qec3 Qec5 Qec7 Qed4 Qed5 Qed6 Qee1 Qee2 Qee3 Qee4 Qee6 Qee7 Qee8 Qef4 Qef5 Qef6 Qeg3 Qeg5 Qeg7 Qeh5 Qeh8 Qexh2+ Qgc4 Qgc8 Qgd4 Qgd7 Qge2 Qge4 Qge6 Qgf3 Qgf4 Qgf5 Qgg3 Qgg5 Qgg6 Qgg7 Qgg8 Qgh3 Qgh4 Qgh5 Qh6g6 Qhb7 Qhc7 Qhd2 Qhd6 Qhd7 Qhe3 Qhe4 Qhe6 Qhe7 Qhf4 Qhf5 Qhf6 Qhf7 Qhf8 Qhg5 Qhg8 Qhh3 Qhh4 Qhh5 Qhh8 Qhxh2+ Ra3 Ra4 Ra5 Ra6 Ra8 Raf7 Rb2 Rb7 Rc2 Rc7 Rd2 Rd7 Re2 Re7 Rf3 Rf4 Rf5 Rf6 Rf8 Rff7 Rg7

and all of them result in mate in 2.

One example:

Nge3+ Qg2 Qhxh2#

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:47 pm**

by **Uri Blass**

JohnWoe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Logged Sapeli's maximum moves from standard games against Fairy:

https://pastebin.com/HU2CQvZm
79 moves is the maximum currently.

I think 128 is plenty for gameplay. For analyzing 256 is bullet proof.

I will be surprised if 79 moves is the maximum for human games.

There are many games between children when the weaker side does not resign and the stronger side prefer to promote many pawns to queens instead of making mate fast and I am sure that some of them have more than 79 moves.

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:30 am**

by **bob**

A LONG time ago, I decided to make this particular question a non issue. I use a big array (vector). I have another vector last[ply]. The idea is then that for all plies, last[ply] points one past the last move for the current ply. If you want to iterate over the complete move list for ply=4, you do something like:

for (move=last[3]; move < last[4]; move++) { loop stuff }

all you have to do is make the vector of moves large enough to hold all the moves from all the plies. There are no gaps this way, no "cache unfriendliness" and such either. And it is very simple.

### Re: Maximum number of pseudo legal moves.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:41 am**

by **MikeB**

Ajedrecista wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:58 pm

Hello Mike:

MikeB wrote:[...] Real world, from real games , not proof games, the record as far I know is 79 moves. I performed a search once , using a move generator on 1 million games and found a game with 78 possible moves . I posted the game here, years ago - maybe 10 to 13 years ago.

The real game record:

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/records/re ... d%20pieces

I downloaded CCRL 40/4 games (CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn, so 2047025 games) and I found positions with perft(1) > 79. There is at least one position in this PGN with perft(1) = 85 because I saw that info while the fantastic tool

**joined** was running, before it was overwritten by other position with perft(1) = 89 and later by others with perft(1) = 98, perft(1) = 102 and perft(1) = 124. There might be other positions found later with 79 < perft(1) =< 124:

Code: Select all

```
.\joined>joined -h
Illegal option: h !
Usage: joined [<*.PGN, *.FEN or *.EPD file>] [-<options>]
Legal options are:
-p : Print messages to both stderr and stdout
-q : Quit after scanning input file
-r : Initial value for random algorithm
-s : Print messages only to stdout
-v<number>: Set verbose level to <number> (default 4)
The numbers may be added. The numbers are:
1: Print PGN
2: Calculate number of legal moves in all positions
4: Print progress (default)
8: Print all warnings
16: Check PGN
32: Report result = '*'
64: Get statistics on all types of moves
***** Error exit *****
.\joined>joined -q -v6 CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn
Scanning file CCRL-404.[2047025].pgn containing 2324578752 bytes !
[...]
Read 2047025 games with 282012002 moves, 53150521 lines, 2324578752 bytes !
Got max. 799 moves in game 1013473 before line 26659054 !
Got 3536229011 legal moves in 284059027 positons !
Got max. 124 legal moves after move 288 in game 892029 line 23469623 !
```

Verbose level -v6 is 2 + 4 = 6 ('Calculate number of legal moves in all positions' and 'Print progress').

Since I can only track the position with the maximum[perft(1)], the game where it arose is the following one:

The position with perft(1) = 124 is the next one just after 288 plies, as reported by

**joined**:

[d]5Q2/1QRB3k/4R3/3QQ3/3Q4/4Q3/4QK2/8 w - - 3 145

Which perft(1) = 124 was verified by

**JetChess** perft counter:

Code: Select all

```
JetChess 1.0.0.0:
5Q2/1QRB3k/4R3/3QQ3/3Q4/4Q3/4QK2/8 w - - 3 145
perft(1) = 124
--------------
1 Qe2-d3
2 Qe2-c4
3 Qe2-b5
4 Qe2-a6
5 Qe2-f3
6 Qe2-g4
7 Qe2-h5
8 Qe2-f1
9 Qe2-d1
10 Qe2-d2
11 Qe2-c2
12 Qe2-b2
13 Qe2-a2
14 Qe2-e1
15 Qe3-f4
16 Qe3-g5
17 Qe3-h6
18 Qe3-d2
19 Qe3-c1
20 Qe3-e4
21 Qe3-f3
22 Qe3-g3
23 Qe3-h3
24 Qe3-d3
25 Qe3-c3
26 Qe3-b3
27 Qe3-a3
28 Qd4-c5
29 Qd4-b6
30 Qd4-a7
31 Qd4-c3
32 Qd4-b2
33 Qd4-a1
34 Qd4-e4
35 Qd4-f4
36 Qd4-g4
37 Qd4-h4
38 Qd4-c4
39 Qd4-b4
40 Qd4-a4
41 Qd4-d3
42 Qd4-d2
43 Qd4-d1
44 Qd5-c6
45 Qd5-e4
46 Qd5-f3
47 Qd5-g2
48 Qd5-h1
49 Qd5-c4
50 Qd5-b3
51 Qd5-a2
52 Qd5-d6
53 Qd5-c5
54 Qd5-b5
55 Qd5-a5
56 Qe5-d6
57 Qe5-f6
58 Qe5-g7
59 Qe5-h8
60 Qe5-f4
61 Qe5-g3
62 Qe5-h2
63 Qe5-f5
64 Qe5-g5
65 Qe5-h5
66 Qe5-e4
67 Qb7-a8
68 Qb7-c8
69 Qb7-c6
70 Qb7-a6
71 Qb7-b8
72 Qb7-a7
73 Qb7-b6
74 Qb7-b5
75 Qb7-b4
76 Qb7-b3
77 Qb7-b2
78 Qb7-b1
79 Qf8-g7
80 Qf8-h6
81 Qf8-e7
82 Qf8-d6
83 Qf8-c5
84 Qf8-b4
85 Qf8-a3
86 Qf8-g8
87 Qf8-h8
88 Qf8-e8
89 Qf8-d8
90 Qf8-c8
91 Qf8-b8
92 Qf8-a8
93 Qf8-f7
94 Qf8-f6
95 Qf8-f5
96 Qf8-f4
97 Qf8-f3
98 Re6-e7
99 Re6-e8
100 Re6-f6
101 Re6-g6
102 Re6-h6
103 Re6-d6
104 Re6-c6
105 Re6-b6
106 Re6-a6
107 Rc7-c8
108 Rc7-c6
109 Rc7-c5
110 Rc7-c4
111 Rc7-c3
112 Rc7-c2
113 Rc7-c1
114 Bd7-c8
115 Bd7-e8
116 Bd7-c6
117 Bd7-b5
118 Bd7-a4
119 Kf2-g2
120 Kf2-f3
121 Kf2-g3
122 Kf2-e1
123 Kf2-f1
124 Kf2-g1
```

It is a real game since it is not a composition, although the level of the engines was really low. To force a threefold repetition with the winning side in a KQQQQQQRRB-vs-k position has its merit.

This task can be repeated with CCRL 40/40 games, CEGT, SSDF and so on. I chose CCRL 40/4 for its high amount of games.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

+1 HAHA - nice find. Good to see CCRL tests engines of all strengths!

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:46 am**

by **Dann Corbit**

I can actually see beads of sweat on the black king's head. Judging by the posts in this thread, I would say he is having a bad day.

### Re: max number of pseudo legal move

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:45 am**

by **Roland Chastain**

Dann, I like very much your "205 best moves" position.

By the way, the official JetChess web page no longer exists. Would you know another place where one can download it?