Test Position

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Marc MP

Test Position

Post by Marc MP » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:31 pm

[D]3r1rkn/ppq1bpp1/4p2p/2p4Q/2BPN3/P1P1P2R/1P4PP/5RK1 w - - 0 1

Kasimdzhanov-Arkell (Vlissingen) 2003

Terry McCracken

Re: Test Position

Post by Terry McCracken » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:48 pm

Marc MP wrote:[D]3r1rkn/ppq1bpp1/4p2p/2p4Q/2BPN3/P1P1P2R/1P4PP/5RK1 w - - 0 1

Kasimdzhanov-Arkell (Vlissingen) 2003
1. Nf6+!...Bxf6 2. Rxf6...gf 3. Qxh6 and Black is mated.

Terry

Marc MP

Re: Test Position

Post by Marc MP » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:29 pm

Quite good... 2...gf6 is not forced though.

Terry McCracken

Re: Test Position

Post by Terry McCracken » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:37 pm

Marc MP wrote:Quite good... 2...gf6 is not forced though.
No it isn't, but White retains the winning initiative, Black will go down kicking and screaming :D

Black could try Rfe8 but that's bad...Ng6 is the toughest resistance..but futile :wink:

Terry

User avatar
JVMerlino
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: Test Position

Post by JVMerlino » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:21 am

CM9_R1 finds Rf6 in less than one second on a P4-2.4:

Code: Select all

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	0.09	3555		1.Rg3 cxd4 2.Qg4
0:00	1/3	0.90	3910		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6
0:00	1/4	0.99	9517		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5
0:00	1/5	0.93	26055		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5 Rfe8
0:00	1/5	2.25	115554		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Kh8
					4.Bxe6
0:01	1/6	3.62	149782		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8
0:01	1/7	3.67	235569		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8 6.Bf5
0:03	1/8	4.62	565380		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rf6
					4.Nxf6+ Bxf6 5.Bxe6+ Kf8 6.Rxh6
					gxh6 7.Qxf6+ Ke8 8.Qxh6 cxd4 9.exd4
0:16	1/9	6.65	3143486		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Ng5 Rxg5 6.Rxg5 Qb6
					7.Qh7+ Kf7
0:31	1/10	7.43	5692910		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Bg5
					4.Rxg5 Kh8 5.Rxc5 Qb6 6.Qe5
1:11	1/11	7.57	12814760	1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Qh7+ Kf7 6.g4 Qc6
					7.gxf5 Qxe4 8.fxe6+ Ke8 9.Rxg7
jm

Terry McCracken

Re: Test Position

Post by Terry McCracken » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:58 am

JVMerlino wrote:CM9_R1 finds Rf6 in less than one second on a P4-2.4:

Code: Select all

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	0.09	3555		1.Rg3 cxd4 2.Qg4
0:00	1/3	0.90	3910		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6
0:00	1/4	0.99	9517		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5
0:00	1/5	0.93	26055		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5 Rfe8
0:00	1/5	2.25	115554		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Kh8
					4.Bxe6
0:01	1/6	3.62	149782		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8
0:01	1/7	3.67	235569		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8 6.Bf5
0:03	1/8	4.62	565380		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rf6
					4.Nxf6+ Bxf6 5.Bxe6+ Kf8 6.Rxh6
					gxh6 7.Qxf6+ Ke8 8.Qxh6 cxd4 9.exd4
0:16	1/9	6.65	3143486		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Ng5 Rxg5 6.Rxg5 Qb6
					7.Qh7+ Kf7
0:31	1/10	7.43	5692910		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Bg5
					4.Rxg5 Kh8 5.Rxc5 Qb6 6.Qe5
1:11	1/11	7.57	12814760	1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Qh7+ Kf7 6.g4 Qc6
					7.gxf5 Qxe4 8.fxe6+ Ke8 9.Rxg7
jm
The mainline of the combination is quite easy, and have used similar themes in blitz and bullet games.

Terry

rafowell

Re: Test Position HIARCS likes Rf6 far better than Nf6

Post by rafowell » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:12 am

HIARCS 11.1 agrees with Chessmaster (as do Shredder, Glaurung, Toga)

HIARCS 11.1 settles on Rf6 by the 5th ply, and sticks with it.
( < 1 second on a 933 MHz Mac G4 laptop)

Code: Select all

+1.78 5/1 00&#58;00 1. Rf6 Rfe8 
+1.77 7/1 00&#58;01 1. Rf6
+4.07 9/1 00&#58;01 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Rxg6 fxg6 3. Qxg6 Rf6  4. Nxf6 Bxf6
                          5. Bxe6 Kf8 6. Rf3 Ke7 7. Bc4
+6.79 12/1 00&#58;46 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Bxe6 Kh8 3. Rxf7 Nh4 4. Rxh4 Rxf7 
                          5. Qxf7 Rf8 6. Rxh6 gxh6 7. Qg6
+7.35 15/1 04&#58;36 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Bxe6 fxe6 3. Rxg6 Rf5 4. Qxh6 Qe5
                          5. Nxc5 Kf7 6. Rxg7 Qxg7 7. Qxe6 Ke8 8. Qxf5 Bxc5 
                          9. Rh7 Qxh7 10. Qxh7
HIARCS thinks Rf6 is more than a Rook stronger than Nf6, as can be seen put putting it in MultiPV mode: At 16 ply, 2-var, the lines are:

Code: Select all

+8.92 16/34 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Bxe6 fxe6 3. Rxg6 Rf5 4. Qxh6 Qe5 
                   5. Qh7 Kf7 6. g4 cxd4 7. gxf5 exf5 8. Ng5 Bxg5
                   9. Rxg5 Ke6 10. Rxg7 Kd5 11. cxd4 Qe4 12. Rd7 Rxd7 
                  13. Qxd7 Kc4

+2.50 16/34 1. Nf6 Bxf6 2. Rxf6 Ng6 3. Bxe6 Nf4 4. exf4 fxe6
                   5. Rxh6 gxh6 6. Qxh6 Qg7 7. Qxe6 Rf7 8. Rg3 Qxg3
                   9. hxg3 cxd4 10. cxd4 Rxd4 11. Qe8 Rf8 12. Qg6 Kh8
Glaurung 1.2.1 likes Rf6, too.

Code: Select all

+2.14 9/1   00&#58;05 1. Rf6 Rfe8 2. Rxh6 gxh6 3. Qxh6 Ng6 4. Bxe6
+4.43 14/1 01&#58;02 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Bxe6 Kh8 3. Rxf7 Rxf7 4. Qxg6 
Toga II 1.2 beta 2a takes a while to find Rf6, but settles on it, too.

Code: Select all

+1.39 11/41 02&#58;11 1. Nf6 Bxf6 2. Rxf6 Ng6 3. Bxe6 Nf4 4. Rxf4 fxe6 
                            5. Rxf8 Rxf8 6. Qxc5 Qxc5 7. dxc5 Rf5 8. b4 Rd5
                            9. Rf3 Rd2 10. Rf1
+1.65 12/1  04&#58;31 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Rxg6 fxg6 3. Qxg6 b6 4. Bxe6 Kh8 
                            5. Bf5 cxd4 6. exd4 Rxd4 7. cxd4 Qc1 8. Kf2 Qxb2 
                            9. Kf3 Qxa3 10. Ke2 Qb2 11. Kf1 Qxd4

Marc MP

Re: Test Position

Post by Marc MP » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:01 am

JVMerlino wrote:CM9_R1 finds Rf6 in less than one second on a P4-2.4:

Code: Select all

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0&#58;00	1/3	0.09	3555		1.Rg3 cxd4 2.Qg4
0&#58;00	1/3	0.90	3910		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6
0&#58;00	1/4	0.99	9517		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5
0&#58;00	1/5	0.93	26055		1.dxc5 Qc6 2.Qg4 Ng6 3.Rh5 Rfe8
0&#58;00	1/5	2.25	115554		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Kh8
					4.Bxe6
0&#58;01	1/6	3.62	149782		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8
0&#58;01	1/7	3.67	235569		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rd6
					4.Nxd6 Bxd6 5.Bxe6+ Kh8 6.Bf5
0&#58;03	1/8	4.62	565380		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Rxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6 Rf6
					4.Nxf6+ Bxf6 5.Bxe6+ Kf8 6.Rxh6
					gxh6 7.Qxf6+ Ke8 8.Qxh6 cxd4 9.exd4
0&#58;16	1/9	6.65	3143486		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Ng5 Rxg5 6.Rxg5 Qb6
					7.Qh7+ Kf7
0&#58;31	1/10	7.43	5692910		1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Bg5
					4.Rxg5 Kh8 5.Rxc5 Qb6 6.Qe5
1&#58;11	1/11	7.57	12814760	1.Rf6 Ng6 2.Bxe6 fxe6 3.Rxg6 Rf5
					4.Qxh6 Bf8 5.Qh7+ Kf7 6.g4 Qc6
					7.gxf5 Qxe4 8.fxe6+ Ke8 9.Rxg7
jm
Hi John,

Could you post what are the R1 settings? I see you use them for test positions (specifically?). They look very good for flash tactics.

Marc

nuff

Re: Test Position

Post by nuff » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:01 am

Any reasonable program/human over 2000 is likely to pick Rf6. Black mishandled the French Rubinstein, here is the actual game :-

[Event "Vlissingen HZ op 7th"]
[Site "Vlissingen"]
[Date "2003.08.09"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Kasimdzhanov, Rustam"]
[Black "Arkell, Keith C"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C10"]
[WhiteElo "2664"]
[BlackElo "2513"]
[PlyCount "53"]
[EventDate "2003.08.02"]

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bd7 5. Nf3 Bc6 6. Bd3 Nd7 7. O-O Ngf6 8.
Ng3 Be7 9. Re1 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 c6 11. c3 O-O 12. Bf4 Re8 13. Rad1 Nf8 14. a3 Nd5
15. Bc1 Bg5 16. Be3 Nxe3 17. fxe3 Ng6 18. Bc4 Qc7 19. Ne4 Be7 20. Rf1 Rf8 21.
Qh5 Rad8 22. Rf3 Nh8 23. Rdf1 c5 24. Rh3 h6 25. Rf6 Ng6 26. Rxg6 fxg6 27. Qxg6
1-0

Vinvin
Posts: 4369
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Test Position HIARCS likes Rf6 far better than Nf6

Post by Vinvin » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:17 pm

rafowell wrote:...
Toga II 1.2 beta 2a takes a while to find Rf6, but settles on it, too.

Code: Select all

+1.39 11/41 02&#58;11 1. Nf6 Bxf6 2. Rxf6 Ng6 3. Bxe6 Nf4 4. Rxf4 fxe6 
                            5. Rxf8 Rxf8 6. Qxc5 Qxc5 7. dxc5 Rf5 8. b4 Rd5
                            9. Rf3 Rd2 10. Rf1
+1.65 12/1  04&#58;31 1. Rf6 Ng6 2. Rxg6 fxg6 3. Qxg6 b6 4. Bxe6 Kh8 
                            5. Bf5 cxd4 6. exd4 Rxd4 7. cxd4 Qc1 8. Kf2 Qxb2 
                            9. Kf3 Qxa3 10. Ke2 Qb2 11. Kf1 Qxd4
I ran TogaII 1.2.1a and 1.3x4 to compare them : 1.3x4 is 3 times faster here :

Hardware : AMD 4200+ 2.2 Ghz (1 core , TogaII 1.2.1a and 1.3x4 are not multithreaded)

Analysis by Toga II 1.2.1a:
...
1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Tf5 Rh8 4.Tg3 Dd7 5.Fb3 Fg5 6.Txc5
± (1.35) Profondeur: 8/28 00:00:00 462kN
1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Tf5 Rh8 4.Rh1 Dd7 5.Thf3 Ch4 6.Cxc5 Fxc5 7.Dxh4
± (1.25) Profondeur: 9/36 00:00:01 947kN
1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Tf5 Rh8 4.Rh1 Dd7 5.Thf3 Ch4 6.Cxc5 Fxc5 7.Dxh4
± (1.25) Profondeur: 10/36 00:00:03 2017kN
1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Tf5 Rh8 4.b3 b6 5.Rh1 Dd7 6.Tg3 c4 7.bxc4 Fxa3
± (1.17) Profondeur: 11/39 00:00:06 4467kN
1.Cf6+ Fxf6 2.Txf6 Cg6 3.Fxe6 Cf4 4.Txf4 fxe6 5.Txf8+ Txf8 6.Dxc5 Dxc5 7.dxc5 Tf5 8.b4 Td5 9.Tf3 Td2 10.Tf1
± (1.39) Profondeur: 11/48 00:00:23 16590kN
1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Txg6 fxg6 3.Dxg6 b6 4.Fxe6+ Rh8 5.Ff5 Tf6 6.Cxf6 Tf8 7.dxc5
+- (1.65) Profondeur: 11/48 00:00:33 23728kN

1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Fxe6 fxe6 3.Txg6 Tf5 4.Dxh6 De5 5.Dh7+ Rf7 6.Thg3 Ff8 7.Cg5+ Re7 8.Txe6+ Dxe6 9.Cxe6 Rxe6 10.Dg6+ Tf6 11.De4+ Rd6 12.Dxb7 cxd4 13.cxd4
+- (6.49) Profondeur: 12/62 00:05:50 266mN
1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Fxe6 fxe6 3.Txg6 Tf5 4.Dxh6 De5 5.Dh7+ Rf7 6.Thg3 Ff8 7.Cg5+ Re7 8.Txe6+ Dxe6 9.Cxe6 Rxe6 10.Dg6+ Tf6 11.De4+ Rd6 12.Dxb7 cxd4 13.cxd4 Td7
+- (6.78) Profondeur: 13/62 00:06:46 305mN


Analysis by Toga II 1.3x4:

1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Thf3 Ce5 4.Fxf7+ Rh8 5.Tf5 Cd3 6.Dg6
± (1.22) Profondeur: 9/32 00:00:01 953kN
1.d5 exd5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Thf3 Ce5 4.Fxf7+ Rh8 5.Tf5 Cd3 6.Fd5 c4 7.Txf8+ Fxf8
± (1.15) Profondeur: 10/44 00:00:03 1888kN
1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Txg6 fxg6 3.Dxg6 Tf6 4.Cxf6+ Fxf6 5.Fxe6+ Rf8 6.Txh6 Re7 7.Df7+ Rd6 8.Txf6 gxf6 9.Dxf6 Rc6 10.Ff5+ Rb5
+- (3.69) Profondeur: 10/44 00:00:12 7720kN

1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Txg6 fxg6 3.Dxg6 Tf6 4.Cxf6+ Fxf6 5.Fxe6+ Rf8 6.Txh6 cxd4 7.Fb3 gxh6 8.Dg8+ Re7 9.Df7+ Rd6 10.Dxf6+ Rc5 11.exd4+ Rb5 12.Dxh6
+- (3.44) Profondeur: 11/44 00:00:13 8689kN
1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Txg6 fxg6 3.Dxg6 Tf6 4.Cxf6+ Fxf6 5.Fxe6+ Rf8 6.Txh6 Re7 7.Fa2 c4 8.Th5 Rf8 9.e4 Rg8
+- (4.10) Profondeur: 12/44 00:00:21 13474kN
1.Tf6 Cg6 2.Fxe6 fxe6 3.Txg6 Tf5 4.Dxh6 De5 5.g4 Rf7 6.Dh7 cxd4 7.gxf5 exf5 8.cxd4 Dxe4 9.Dxg7+ Re8 10.Th8+ Rd7
+- (5.21) Profondeur: 13/57 00:01:16 50259kN
1.Tf6 Td5 2.Fxd5 Cg6 3.Txf7 Txf7 4.Fxe6 Ch8 5.Tf3 Ff8 6.dxc5 De7 7.Fxf7+ Cxf7 8.Dd5 Dc7 9.Cd6
+- (6.03) Profondeur: 14/57 00:03:49 155mN

Post Reply