I am as well. Already there are people claiming that Strelka steals from Beowulf.smirobth wrote:Hi Dan,Dann Corbit wrote:I have examined the code and Strelka is not a clone. There is a 1 MB data table called 'material' inside Strelka, which is what I thought was some encrypted binary.
It's ironic that I complained about the 'primitive' Winboard parser.
Strelka's winboard parser borrows heavily from Beowulf.
I am a little surprised that you shared anything specific about the inner workings of a closed source chess engine.
My review of Strelka Code
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Re: My review of Strelka Code
So hard to apologize
In my opinion it is clear why one should not throw accusations without being certain: Because, by the time the accusations are retracted (in case they were false) the damage has already been done.
Of course sometimes the accusations are not retracted at all, because people find it hard to apologize and make correcting statements.
Do you still believe that Strelka is a clone, in contrast to Dann? Or are you convinced that it is not?
The silence from your part is deafening.
Of course sometimes the accusations are not retracted at all, because people find it hard to apologize and make correcting statements.
Now that Dann (as well as Bryan and Sergei) has expressed his opinion that Strelka is not a clone, Christopher, you have made no clear comment on the matter.Christopher Conkie in the thread: To put everything into place with Strelka wrote:No.Sergei Markoff wrote:To be a honest I need a permission from author to do it.Christopher Conkie wrote:Why are you showing us Smarthink when you have the Strelka code?
Why not show us the Strelka interface instead?
It's useless to anyone without the rest of Strelka anyway.
I think, that Bryan's opinion will be enought to stop speculations. Are you agree with it?
Dann Corbit's opinion is the one that counts and always has.
Regards
Christopher
Do you still believe that Strelka is a clone, in contrast to Dann? Or are you convinced that it is not?
The silence from your part is deafening.
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Re: So hard to apologize
Ola Leto, Swami,
......now everyone knows
........................................Who's Who.
....those with a clean, heart and mind r out there basking in
....................................................clear sunshine:idea:
...those with jaundiced livers (hehehe)
..........................................................r still down there
doubting, questioning if they're ever gonna get outta that mess.
hehehe..........
...........hahahaha
.
.
................. Mu Shin ..........................
.
................. Mu Shin ..........................
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Nothing To Apologise For.....
May I refer you to the following post which you may have missed.Now that Dann (as well as Bryan and Sergei) has expressed his opinion that Strelka is not a clone, Christopher, you have made no clear comment on the matter.
Do you still believe that Strelka is a clone, in contrast to Dann? Or are you convinced that it is not?
The silence from your part is deafening.
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 64&t=13676
Regards
Christopher
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Re: Is that an accusation?
I think that winboard parser is not considered as part of the engine and I do not think that this was the intention of the copyright.Dirt wrote:Does "borrows heavily" mean copied? Beowulf appears to be GPL software, so if Strelka uses code from the Beowulf it would be a copyright violation.Dann Corbit wrote:...
Strelka's winboard parser borrows heavily from Beowulf.
I do not know about a single case when people complained that some author copied the winboard parser code that is not about chess from another program.
I asked tord if I can copy code from the uci code of glaurung that is not about playing chess and he said that there is no problem to do it.
Uri
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Re: Is that an accusation?
As far as the originality of a program, I agree that parser code is insignificant. There were some discussions here about the WCCC rules where it was stated that sort of code reuse would not be allowed there, much to my surprise. The use of EGTBs were said to be only allowed because they are explicitly listed as an exception.Uri Blass wrote:I think that winboard parser is not considered as part of the engine and I do not think that this was the intention of the copyright.Dirt wrote:Does "borrows heavily" mean copied? Beowulf appears to be GPL software, so if Strelka uses code from the Beowulf it would be a copyright violation.Dann Corbit wrote:...
Strelka's winboard parser borrows heavily from Beowulf.
;-)
I do not know about a single case when people complained that some author copied the winboard parser code that is not about chess from another program.
I asked tord if I can copy code from the uci code of glaurung that is not about playing chess and he said that there is no problem to do it.
Uri
Copyright isn't a matter of intention, it is a legal principle that I think it should always be respected. I just don't think it would have been right for you to use Tord's code like that without asking permission.
Perhaps Strelka hasn't really copied Beowulf's interface code: Dann didn't explicitly say they did. Perhaps permission was obtained from whoever holds the rights to that part of the Beowulf code. The situation is unfortunately unclear.
If there is a problem I'm sure it could be cleaned up with minor effort, and I hope with no lasting harm.
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Re: Is that an accusation?
The objective of Dann when saying that the interface winboard of Strelka is based on Beowulf, it is not to criticize to Strelka for that reason, Dann has criticized to Strelka because its interface winboard seemed quite rudimentary, the peculiar thing of the case is that Dann worked in Beowulf and if he criticizes to Strelka by the interface, het is criticizing his own work and the one of Colin Frayn.
Pedro
Pedro
Re: Nothing To Apologise For.....
I have not missed this post. It was posted on Thursday, two days before Bryan and Dann expressed their opinions, that Strelka is an original work.Christopher Conkie wrote:May I refer you to the following post which you may have missed.Now that Dann (as well as Bryan and Sergei) has expressed his opinion that Strelka is not a clone, Christopher, you have made no clear comment on the matter.
Do you still believe that Strelka is a clone, in contrast to Dann? Or are you convinced that it is not?
The silence from your part is deafening.
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 64&t=13676
Regards
Christopher
You say in this post that the decision of Dann will be final. I take it, then, that you now believe that Strelka is not a clone.
In my opinion you should have made a post stating this fact and apologizing.
Else you are proving my point that throwing accusations and starting rumors is a lot easier than correcting one's mistake and apologizing.
EDIT: As for your title "Nothing to Apologize for", I would like to remind you that you started the thread "From Russia With Love" (http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13611), where you clearly implied that you had discovered that Strelka is a clone of Rybka
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Re: Nothing To Apologise For.....
For what?glorfindel wrote:
In my opinion you should have made a post stating this fact and apologizing.
For what?glorfindel wrote: Else you are proving my point that throwing accusations and starting rumors is a lot easier than correcting one's mistake and apologizing.
No I showed you a position where doth Strelka and a certain version of Rybka behave in a similar manner.glorfindel wrote:As for your title "Nothing to Apologize for", I would like to remind you that you started the thread "From Russia With Love" (http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13611), where you clearly implied that you had discovered that Strelka is a clone of Rybka
There are no words in the post.
There is nothing clearly implied except a similarity.
Either you can see that or booze is too cheap in Greece.
Regards
Christopher